Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is Tanking An Option?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Yes. Wow. Great call.

    What many here are talking about is going all in on JO or Turk and thinking the rest of the team is just missing that one piece.

    Oh man, that is a sickening thought.
    Retooling doesn't necessarily require selling the future.

    Its looking at different values of players and adding the ones who up the asset level on the team. It might mean trading one of the big 3 assets we have in Lowry, DeMar, JV or it might mean signing something like Beverley and Danny Green and hoping that those two with the right coach swing this team around

    Comment


    • #92
      mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      Yes. Wow. Great call.

      What many here are talking about is going all in on JO or Turk and thinking the rest of the team is just missing that one piece.

      Oh man, that is a sickening thought.
      I can already see the over the hill "star" BC would overpay to "improve" the team. His name is David West.
      "Stay steamy"

      - Kobe

      Comment


      • #93
        DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
        I dont really get what that proves. That scrubs can get carried to championships? Every team has scrubs on it, but very few have super stars (top5-10 players). The players who are the best consistantly bring their teams deep in the playoffs. If the same players are going far in the playoffs is makes sense that their temates also go far, that doesnt mean that having haslem will help miami in the future.
        I was being tongue-in-cheek, but my point was that saying a certain group of players being in every finals isn't really a decent set of data to base an argument around, since I could do the same with a really mediocre group of players.

        Comment


        • #94
          Just throwing this out there, but re-tooling doesn't have to mean throwing the kitchen sink at one overpriced piece in order to salvage the current core. MU could still tinker with the roster, continuing to acquire assets and playoff experience until the right deal comes along, possibly even in 3-4 years.

          Let's say for example that this offseason he lets Amir and Lou walk, throws some money at Khris Middleton and re-signs Hansbrough on the cheap to back up Patterson, and then finds a new coach. Next season might not play out much better than this one, but they'd still be poised to make a deal for a franchise player while retaining enough core pieces to make 'the leap'. You keep developing your guys, keep piling up assets and making smart short team deals a la Morey with an eye toward snagging the next superstar that becomes available. It might not work, but is it any less likely to than tanking?

          I'm not suggesting that this is the best course of action, just that there are options between going full Colangelo and going full tank.

          Comment


          • #95
            If we do tank, I want absolutely NO PART OF MASAI in it, he talked about his 5 year plan, if he blows it up now he will never finish it on time, blowing it up and tanking does not give him an extension like most of you think it would.

            I don't think we should tank, but the problem with Colangelo was that he misevaluated who can play together and who couldn't, with his plan (or lack of), he just threw random s**t together and expected it to work.

            We do need a PF (or C) and SF, preferably veterans at those two positions, Tyson Chandler (and we already know he would have no problem coming here) is going to be available this summer, he already has his ring and would be an amazing veteran to have on this squad, now all that is left is to address the SF position.

            I think people that want to tank are afraid of what happens if they find out if Masai isn't really as good as they once thought and can't face the fact that he may not be that great.

            Comment


            • #96
              I'd like an Atlanta style retooling.

              Step number 1, by far the most important step, is firing Casey and replacing him with a very good coach. Put Casey on the bench in Atlanta and that team is as bad as the Raps. Iso Teague and Korver fading left 3 pointers with plenty of time on the shot clock, while Millsap and Horford are ignored on the inside.

              I think we should throw some money at Demarre Carroll and steal him away from Atlanta. He's a UFA, and Atlanta is likely going to have to max out Millsap, plus Horford up for a new contract next year, so a sizable offer to Carroll probably gets him. Then we have our starting SF who can nail 3's (40% 3pt shooter) and play awesome defense. He'd be a massive upgrade over Ross and provide important veteran leadership.

              Explore trades to bring in a good starting PF. Top guy to trade would be Ross. How about a swap of Ross for Sullinger? Seems realistic to me, but just an idea, wanted to throw out a young PF to give an example. Sullinger's biggest concerns are injuries, and Toronto has the best S&C staff in the NBA. If we can get 82 games out of him, it would be a fantastic upgrade to a young, improving PF who can defend 4's and 5's.

              Bring back De Colo as our replacement for Lou Williams. He's been destroying it for CSKA in the Euroleague where he got plenty of playing time. He's shooting 46% from 3, 51.4% from 2, 91.2% FT, 16.8 pts, 3.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.4 stl in 24.5 minutes per game. Time for us to reap the benefits and bring him back. He'd pass more than Lou, rebound more than Lou, take better shots than Lou, and defend better than Lou. He'd also be a lot cheaper than Lou.

              Use our draft pick to add depth wherever it is needed. Possibly a 3rd PG, possibly a 3rd PF, possibly a 3rd SG, the possibilities are endless . We could also look at bringing over Deandre Daniels for depth at the end of the bench.

              Here's a sample depth chart if the simple retooling I laid out above happens.

              PG: Lowry, Greivis
              SG: DeRozan, DeColo
              SF: Carroll, Johnson, Bruno
              PF: Sullinger, Patterson
              C: JV, Bebe

              Toss in the draft pick and possibly Daniels, and that's a much better team. Given a new coach who doesn't suck like Casey, I see a solid playoff team with potential to make some noise, and still tons of flexibility moving forward with two 2016 draft picks and decent cap space.

              Comment


              • #97
                Primer wrote: View Post
                I'd like an Atlanta style retooling.

                Step number 1, by far the most important step, is firing Casey and replacing him with a very good coach. Put Casey on the bench in Atlanta and that team is as bad as the Raps. Iso Teague and Korver fading left 3 pointers with plenty of time on the shot clock, while Millsap and Horford are ignored on the inside.

                I think we should throw some money at Demarre Carroll and steal him away from Atlanta. He's a UFA, and Atlanta is likely going to have to max out Millsap, plus Horford up for a new contract next year, so a sizable offer to Carroll probably gets him. Then we have our starting SF who can nail 3's (40% 3pt shooter) and play awesome defense. He'd be a massive upgrade over Ross and provide important veteran leadership.

                Explore trades to bring in a good starting PF. Top guy to trade would be Ross. How about a swap of Ross for Sullinger? Seems realistic to me, but just an idea, wanted to throw out a young PF to give an example. Sullinger's biggest concerns are injuries, and Toronto has the best S&C staff in the NBA. If we can get 82 games out of him, it would be a fantastic upgrade to a young, improving PF who can defend 4's and 5's.

                Bring back De Colo as our replacement for Lou Williams. He's been destroying it for CSKA in the Euroleague where he got plenty of playing time. He's shooting 46% from 3, 51.4% from 2, 91.2% FT, 16.8 pts, 3.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.4 stl in 24.5 minutes per game. Time for us to reap the benefits and bring him back. He'd pass more than Lou, rebound more than Lou, take better shots than Lou, and defend better than Lou. He'd also be a lot cheaper than Lou.

                Use our draft pick to add depth wherever it is needed. Possibly a 3rd PG, possibly a 3rd PF, possibly a 3rd SG, the possibilities are endless . We could also look at bringing over Deandre Daniels for depth at the end of the bench.

                Here's a sample depth chart if the simple retooling I laid out above happens.

                PG: Lowry, Greivis
                SG: DeRozan, DeColo
                SF: Carroll, Johnson, Bruno
                PF: Sullinger, Patterson
                C: JV, Bebe

                Toss in the draft pick and possibly Daniels, and that's a much better team. Given a new coach who doesn't suck like Casey, I see a solid playoff team with potential to make some noise, and still tons of flexibility moving forward with two 2016 draft picks and decent cap space.
                and we may have some cap space left over to offer a guy like Tyson Chandler a contract, let's face it, we still have no veteran.

                Comment


                • #98
                  peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
                  and we may have some cap space left over to offer a guy like Tyson Chandler a contract, let's face it, we still have no veteran.
                  I'm cool with making an offer to Chandler and pushing Bebe to 3rd string. I expect he will have a lot of suitors though.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Primer wrote: View Post
                    I'm cool with making an offer to Chandler and pushing Bebe to 3rd string. I expect he will have a lot of suitors though.
                    Then who would be some other veterans we should target

                    Comment


                    • peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
                      Then who would be some other veterans we should target
                      David West would be an interesting vet to target for the starting PF slot. Either trade Ross for him or sign him if he opts out. If we can't get him, Scola would be a cheaper option who is going to be a UFA.

                      Comment


                      • Primer wrote: View Post
                        David West would be an interesting vet to target for the starting PF slot. Either trade Ross for him or sign him if he opts out. If we can't get him, Scola would be a cheaper option who is going to be a UFA.
                        Both those guys are 34, and will be 35 when next season starts. They're vets, but they're also hitting that age where you never know when their game could fall off a cliff.

                        I would've been ok trading something like an asset (Ross/a pick) and filler for West this past season. But signing him to a fresh, likely multi-year deal if he opts out? The price would have to be a steal. Scola probably wouldn't be that expensive, but doesn't really move the needle at this point in his career and doesn't seem to be aging as well as West. Scola would be a fully underwhelming move, and if that's how we're trying to elevate this team I'd rather a more complete rebuild.

                        It may be a situation where any vet that makes sense just isn't one we can get. Millsap is probably the most obvious fit. Maybe Aldridge close behind. But getting either one would be a huge surprise. If you miss on those guys, do you then go to the worse vets like Scola? Do you instead target a younger free agent? Do you target another top tier vet but at a position that would clash with a current core piece and mean more complex changes have to be made?

                        Could be lots of decisions to make this summer.

                        Comment


                        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          Both those guys are 34, and will be 35 when next season starts. They're vets, but they're also hitting that age where you never know when their game could fall off a cliff.

                          I would've been ok trading something like an asset (Ross/a pick) and filler for West this past season. But signing him to a fresh, likely multi-year deal if he opts out? The price would have to be a steal. Scola probably wouldn't be that expensive, but doesn't really move the needle at this point in his career and doesn't seem to be aging as well as West. Scola would be a fully underwhelming move, and if that's how we're trying to elevate this team I'd rather a more complete rebuild.

                          It may be a situation where any vet that makes sense just isn't one we can get. Millsap is probably the most obvious fit. Maybe Aldridge close behind. But getting either one would be a huge surprise. If you miss on those guys, do you then go to the worse vets like Scola? Do you instead target a younger free agent? Do you target another top tier vet but at a position that would clash with a current core piece and mean more complex changes have to be made?

                          Could be lots of decisions to make this summer.
                          Personally I'd rather target a younger guy like Sullinger. I was just giving peanut some vets that could be targeted if getting more experienced is the goal. It's not like our team isn't laden with vets right now. The only guys I wouldn't call vets are JV, Ross, Bruno and Bebe. We've just got too many vets with the me first mentality instead of the team mentality. The Hawks used Lou's cap space to bring in Thefalosha, who isn't nearly as good offensively, but with his defense and teamwork was a much better fit. So the key is bringing in the right vets, not just any vets.

                          Comment


                          • No FAs over 30, unless they are stars.
                            The name's Bond, James Bond.

                            Comment


                            • 007 wrote: View Post
                              No FAs over 30, unless they are stars.
                              Carroll is only 28. Let's go get him.

                              Comment


                              • Primer wrote: View Post
                                Personally I'd rather target a younger guy like Sullinger. I was just giving peanut some vets that could be targeted if getting more experienced is the goal. It's not like our team isn't laden with vets right now. The only guys I wouldn't call vets are JV, Ross, Bruno and Bebe. We've just got too many vets with the me first mentality instead of the team mentality. The Hawks used Lou's cap space to bring in Thefalosha, who isn't nearly as good offensively, but with his defense and teamwork was a much better fit. So the key is bringing in the right vets, not just any vets.

                                or maybe someone like Kendrick Perkins or Tayshaun Prince could work as well since they have success in the league to back them up and can demand respect from guys like Lowry and DeRozan.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X