Who else is totally bummed by this offseason already?

[golden]

Based on the last 4 years under Casey, can you actually foresee a roster that would work with him? I can't because Casey will not adjust to his personnel.

I think some posters are being a bit dramatic just because people are disappointed already. Yes, we are all aware that the bulk of the offseason is still to come, but the 2 things that we have seen (Casey and rebrand jerseys) are both disappointments. 0-2 to start the offseason after a rough final few months and an embarrassing playoffs, yeah it's fair to be disappointed already.

Exactly. Just look at what Casey demands of the C/PF position alone.

1) Ability to guard traditional bigs in the post
2) Ability to guard smallball bigs on the perimeter
3) High IQ decision-making to defend & switch on PnR, followed by recovery with elite rim protection
4) Ability to score on low post ISOs against a big + swiping help defender, with the entry pass delivered way too far from the low post & no outlet pass opportunity
5) Rebounding

Is there even one big in the league that meets all those criteria? I can only think of one player whose even close. Ironically, it's Chris Bosh.

[psrs1]

I think people are feeling upset at this point because the old familiar feeling is back...

After the team began it's short-lived run of success I think that most fans believed that we had turned a corner and were entering into a new era where we would move away from being nothing more than a running joke, a constant embodiment of failure and shame...

The cloud had lifted and the Raptors (absolutely the name and brand are the worst in all of pro sport and are now officially becoming an anchor around the franchises neck..) had garnered a level of respect and no matter where we ended up we would be holding our heads high (despite the silly and ridiculous jerseys, logo, and name along with the putrid tradition and history they represent and pay tribute to...) as we headed into the first off-season where we could swing for the fences and finally break-through the free-agent glass ceiling and bring in an all-star calibre player to take us to the "next level"...

Well, here we are back in that same old place... confused, sad, and totally let down in the most remarkable and unexpected fashion by the organization as a whole. The realization has just settled in we are who they thought we were... The Raptors.


P.S.- It is my life mission to get the team nick-name changed. So the jersey mock-ups they recently put out not only show just how badly we need to make a wholesale change, but also put the icing on the cake as far as how the organization is screwing us over, and showing that it comes straight from the top. The fact that they could hype it up sooooooooo much then come with the exact same designs and colours because they figure everyone will buy based on the new wave of success and the all-star game and Drake. This is beyond disturbing and shows they are simply trying to take advantage of the fans and people of this city and country. Classy move having NONE of the shirts say Toronto on them obviously trying to appeal to people outside the city... Which is actually a good thing if it had been accomplished by changing the team name to something we can be proud of and identify with as people from this city/country...

P.S.S.-Also, I remember Leiweke on Strombo show saying that they were really close to a name change but didn't do it and said that they still might change it, then I remember them saying that they scrapped the name change because of the run of good play and swell in support. ( i.e. Jurassic Park in the rain..) Well i hope they are happy... the Raptor name went on to do such Raptor things and now we are here and we might have missed the best chance to change and start a new era with the all-star game as the lauch pad, just so we could go on to get swept by the Truth and totally embarrass ourselves, only further deepening the negative association the Raptor brand has always had since the first day when the name was recealed and Mr. Thomas walked through the big paper picture of the dino 20 years ago...

End of stupid, pointless post/rant...

Good post. I wish the Raptors players , coaches and management cared as much as you clearly do.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Yes,I'm still Bummed,freaking Hawks are in the Semifinals..pathetic.

[Axel]

Well the jersey thing is a little ridiculous as style is completely subjective and I'm sure there are plenty of people that think the rebranded jerseys look amazing (including the people who do this for a living obviously). Once again, there seems to be a bit of the forum bubble at play here where we think that because ten people on the RR forums do not like them, that everyone else shares the same opinion. For what it's worth, I think they look fine.

And even if I thought they were horrendous, the colour scheme of the "Drake alternate jerseys" ranks pretty low on my list of things that will determine my satisfaction as a fan.

And in regards to the Casey thing…yes, the man has shown that he's capable of leading an effective team during his time in Toronto. He had the best record in the Conference for close to a 100 game span at one point in the not too distant past, with a roster that we all seem to admit that is fundamentally flawed.

And I don't want to turn this into a defence of Casey because like I said before, I was hoping that he would be fired too and I thought tthe way our season/playoffs ended was grounds for dismissal in itself. But do I think next season is completely doomed before it even begins despite having no idea what the roster will look like… of course not.

In one sentence: I'm not bummed out by the off season because it hasn't even begun yet.

Few quick points.

1. Just because the uniform design is subjective, doesn't mean people can't be disappointed.
2. The title of the thread ends with the word "already" - indicating that the OP and supporters of such, understand that it's not a complete offseason but since we got swept, our offseason did start early.
3. I think Casey could be a successful coach, but since he won't adapt to his players, he basically needs the ideal roster (not perfect but ideal for him). Since I find that highly improbable for next season (or any season), expecting him to fail as he has for significant stretches is perfectly reasonable for fans.
4. As for the "forum bubble" affect. Don't think that is in play here. This isn't a ridiculous "sky is falling" "FireMasai" "offseason is a fail" thread, it's a perfectly reasonable assessment of what has happened so far. Yeah, keeping Casey sucks. Yeah, whatever drama went on with this roster sucks. Yeah, whatever drama with our assistants suck. Yeah, IMO, the brand redesign is pretty bad. And yeah, we still have a full offseason of change ahead of us to improve our team and outlook but, at this early point, pretty much all bad things except the D league (which might be another full year away).

[Scraptor]

Well the jersey thing is a little ridiculous as style is completely subjective and I'm sure there are plenty of people that think the rebranded jerseys look amazing (including the people who do this for a living obviously). Once again, there seems to be a bit of the forum bubble at play here where we think that because ten people on the RR forums do not like them, that everyone else shares the same opinion. For what it's worth, I think they look fine.

And even if I thought they were horrendous, the colour scheme of the "Drake alternate jerseys" ranks pretty low on my list of things that will determine my satisfaction as a fan.

And in regards to the Casey thing…yes, the man has shown that he's capable of leading an effective team during his time in Toronto. He had the best record in the Conference for close to a 100 game span at one point in the not too distant past, with a roster that we all seem to admit that is fundamentally flawed.

And I don't want to turn this into a defence of Casey because like I said before, I was hoping that he would be fired too and I thought tthe way our season/playoffs ended was grounds for dismissal in itself. But do I think next season is completely doomed before it even begins despite having no idea what the roster will look like… of course not.

In one sentence: I'm not bummed out by the off season because it hasn't even begun yet.

I think you underestimate how much this forum lines up with the general feeling among the Raptors fanbase. Check out reddit or RaptorsHQ or anywhere else and it's a lot more than 10 people who dislike the rebrand.
http://www.reddit.com/r/torontorapto..._available_on/

Same goes for those who want Casey fired. I've seen polls at 80-90% among hardcore fans and even in a Star poll within an article blaming Lowry and arguing for keeping Casey, more Star readers wanted Casey fired than not.

It's fair to be disappointed but I agree that the poll is a little premature. Might as well wait to see what Masai has in store. Then we can wallow in misery if need be.

[Puffer]

As has been mentioned, Casey has been the head coach of the two most successful seasons in Raps history, albeit with a flawed roster. This is definitely not the most talented roster the Raps have had. Yet there it is. Two record breaking seasons of wins in a row. Their record of wins against the west was over .500 both years I believe. Third best offense in the league. And how many weeks were they No. 1 in the whole league? Never happened before.

Has Casey learned anything this year? We hope so. Is Masai going to improve the roster? Likely as much as he can. Despite Casey still being here, I expect next year to be better than this one.

[Axel]

As has been mentioned, Casey has been the head coach of the two most successful seasons in Raps history, albeit with a flawed roster. This is definitely not the most talented roster the Raps have had. Yet there it is. Two record breaking seasons of wins in a row. Their record of wins against the west was over .500 both years I believe. Third best offense in the league. And how many weeks were they No. 1 in the whole league? Never happened before.

Has Casey learned anything this year? We hope so. Is Masai going to improve the roster? Likely as much as he can. Despite Casey still being here, I expect next year to be better than this one.

Those things might have held weight until Casey's exit interview.

[Not Too Xabi]

Soon as I heard Casey was coming back I checked out. The franchise is proper mediocre, let's face it. Just totally rotten from top to bottom. Maybe in 5 years?

[Scraptor]

As has been mentioned, Casey has been the head coach of the two most successful seasons in Raps history, albeit with a flawed roster. This is definitely not the most talented roster the Raps have had. Yet there it is. Two record breaking seasons of wins in a row. Their record of wins against the west was over .500 both years I believe. Third best offense in the league. And how many weeks were they No. 1 in the whole league? Never happened before.

Has Casey learned anything this year? We hope so. Is Masai going to improve the roster? Likely as much as he can. Despite Casey still being here, I expect next year to be better than this one.

This sounds very similar to what was said last offseason when it was time to make a decision about giving Casey a new contract.

Our history as a franchise is pretty shabby, so breaking team records isn't a great measuring stick. Vinny Del Negro was fired after breaking the Clippers regular season win record. And if you count our showing in the playoffs, we won 40% of our games against .500 or better teams over two years.

If our goal is to not embarrass ourselves before the All-Star game, then the status quo is the way to go. If our goal is to make progress, Casey is not the answer.

[Chr1s1anL]

Lol

[Fully]

Few quick points.

1. Just because the uniform design is subjective, doesn't mean people can't be disappointed.
2. The title of the thread ends with the word "already" - indicating that the OP and supporters of such, understand that it's not a complete offseason but since we got swept, our offseason did start early.
3. I think Casey could be a successful coach, but since he won't adapt to his players, he basically needs the ideal roster (not perfect but ideal for him). Since I find that highly improbable for next season (or any season), expecting him to fail as he has for significant stretches is perfectly reasonable for fans.
4. As for the "forum bubble" affect. Don't think that is in play here. This isn't a ridiculous "sky is falling" "FireMasai" "offseason is a fail" thread, it's a perfectly reasonable assessment of what has happened so far. Yeah, keeping Casey sucks. Yeah, whatever drama went on with this roster sucks. Yeah, whatever drama with our assistants suck. Yeah, IMO, the brand redesign is pretty bad. And yeah, we still have a full offseason of change ahead of us to improve our team and outlook but, at this early point, pretty much all bad things except the D league (which might be another full year away).

First point is fair, but it'd also be like me saying that the offseason has exceeded expectations already based on the new colour scheme being way better than I thought it would be, which would be pretty lame. It's a jersey!

Number two is the entire crux of the argument. Of course the offseason isn't complete… it hasn't even begun yet, as teams are still playing basketball and all avenues to improve your team are currently locked. This is really just a grandiose extension of the Fire Casey thread, calling the offseason a massive disappointment "already" because he wasn't canned. We get it… we all want him gone. But that is basically the only thing that could have happened this offseason to have influenced the team next season… unless you think new alternate road jerseys will churn out a few more Ws.

[Fully]

I think you underestimate how much this forum lines up with the general feeling among the Raptors fanbase. Check out reddit or RaptorsHQ or anywhere else and it's a lot more than 10 people who dislike the rebrand.
http://www.reddit.com/r/torontorapto..._available_on/

Same goes for those who want Casey fired. I've seen polls at 80-90% among hardcore fans and even in a Star poll within an article blaming Lowry and arguing for keeping Casey, more Star readers wanted Casey fired than not.

It's fair to be disappointed but I agree that the poll is a little premature. Might as well wait to see what Masai has in store. Then we can wallow in misery if need be.

You didn't just link me to a reddit thread with 9 posts, did you? I rest my case.

You add up all the RR members, all the reddit posters, all the Raptors HQ usernames, etc…. and we are still a fraction of a percent of the Raptors fan base in the grand scheme of things. We mean absolutely nothing.

And that aforementioned poll in the Toronto Star was basically a split down the middle for whether fans wanted Casey gone or not… certainly not 80-90%. But I'm really not trying to advocate on his behalf.

[Puffer]

This sounds very similar to what was said last offseason when it was time to make a decision about giving Casey a new contract.

Our history as a franchise is pretty shabby, so breaking team records isn't a great measuring stick. Vinny Del Negro was fired after breaking the Clippers regular season win record. And if you count our showing in the playoffs, we won 40% of our games against .500 or better teams over two years.

If our goal is to not embarrass ourselves before the All-Star game, then the status quo is the way to go. If our goal is to make progress, Casey is not the answer.

I don't disagree. MY preference would have been to see Casey go. Having said that, after watching for 20 years, can I handle another year of Casey....well yeah. BUT I have expectations with regards to roster and style of play.

[golden]

As has been mentioned, Casey has been the head coach of the two most successful seasons in Raps history, albeit with a flawed roster. This is definitely not the most talented roster the Raps have had. Yet there it is. Two record breaking seasons of wins in a row. Their record of wins against the west was over .500 both years I believe. Third best offense in the league. And how many weeks were they No. 1 in the whole league? Never happened before.

Has Casey learned anything this year? We hope so. Is Masai going to improve the roster? Likely as much as he can. Despite Casey still being here, I expect next year to be better than this one.

Atlantic Division / Eastern Conference.

It cannot be over-stated that Casey has also had the incredibly good fortune and timing of being the coach when the Atlantic division is epicly and historically bad (er, putrid) and the Eastern Conference is also at a low point. Look at last year, you could pencil in 8 wins guaranteed against the Knicks and Sixers. The Raps went 11-5 against the Titanic (it should have been even better than that). The Celtics are still emerging from tank mode, and even they went 12-4 against the Atlantic division, and they have to play a "good" team (the Raps) and don't get to play themselves.

Contrast that with a coach who just got canned, Monty Williams, whose got the Brow and some badly mis-matched parts. Look at who the Pels have to play 16 times - Rockets, Spurs, Mavs and Grizz. Holy crap! And yet the Pels held their own (8-8) in their division and still made the playoffs.

Casey is living a charmed life, for sure.

[mcHAPPY]

I would be more disappointed with a new coach and same roster than casey back with a different roster.... So I am still optimistic especially when Rd 2 just finished.

If same roster is back next year with casey, cue depressive state.