The Raptors are NOT young

[mcHAPPY]

Every time I've read the forums or listened to an interview or watched a Raptors game inevitably the narrative of "we are a young team" gets mentioned. Every time I read or hear this I want to scream. This is why it was so refreshing to read the RR interview with Jack Armstrong earlier this week:



When looking at straight average age, the Raptors are around middle of the pack in the NBA at 13th and 26.2 years.
When looking at experience, the Raptors are again middle of the pack at 15th with 4.6 years. Source: http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison


However when you break down the Raptors roster, the guys who actually play are mostly all in the prime of their careers or the tail end of prime:

Lowry: 29
'Bro: 29
Vasquez: 28
Lou: 28
JJ: 28
Amir: 28*
PP: 26
DD: 25 (26 in August)
Ross: 24
JV: 23 (just turned)

Bebe is just 22 (23 in July) and Bruno is 19 (20 in September).

*Amir is the oldest 28 year old I've ever seen.


But the only thing that made me scream louder than the false "we are young" narrative is the you need VETS to win. I'm tired of this. You don't need vets - you need talent.


For anyone who follows forums, it should be no secret I want to see Lou and Amir walk with Lowry and/or DeRozan traded. People assume this is going to lead to "tanking". I don't agree it is a guaranteed outcome. They might not make the playoffs next season (especially if Lowry is traded) but a step back in the short term is really the only chance to get beyond the current situation of 1st round hiccup**. Houston is a great example of building with youth:

2011-12: Starting in the lockout shortened season, the Rockets finished 34-32. 10 of the 19 players who played on the roster that season were younger than 25 with 14 being 25 or younger. For the players who actually played though, they were all the vets. The Rockets did not make the playoffs though - victim to the West dominance over last number of seasons.

2012-13: This is the beginning of the Beard. Using their youth, vets on manageable contracts, and draft pick stash the Rockets traded for James Harden. Yet again this was a young roster with 14 of 20 guys who appeared that season were younger than 25. More importantly 5 of their top 7 rotation were younger than 25. Despite the increased reliance on youth the team managed to increase their WP to 45-37. They also made the playoffs where they lost in 1st round to OKC 4-2 with 2 losses decided by 3 points each.

2013-14: Combined with their star guard, youth, and cap space, the Rockets managed to sign a max contract in Dwight Howard. Despite this, the Rockets still had a young roster with 8 of 18 players on roster that season under 25. As younger guys have grown older over course of last 2 seasons, we now see 12 of the 18 roster players 25 or younger. The Rockets increased their regular season wins to 54-28. They lost once again in first round 4-2 to Portland with 3 games going to OT (1-2) and the final game a 1 point loss.

2014-15: With significant cap space, Rockets add a veteran Ariza to team. 9 of 20 roster players are still under 25 and 10/20 are 25 or younger. The rotation is now older due to injuries, free agent signings, and younger players who developed getting older. The team had 56 wins and now is in West conference finals where, through use of DLeague, a player like Clint Capela (20) develops and makes an impact in the playoffs when called upon.

This is how a young team grows and develops in to a winning team.


Again, the Raptors are NOT a young team.

Hopefully the Raptors start to make the fictitious narrative of being a young team a reality. It might require a small step back now but, with the majority of the Raptor rotation 28 or older, the expiration date on this core is sooner than later. Attempting to stick with this core is only going to ensure a bigger and longer step back in the near future.


**If you disagree, please explain how the Raptors get better with letting all FA walk and $16M in cap space OR keeping Lou/Amir and working with exceptions and minimum contracts. I just don't see it....doesn't mean I'm right though!

So the Raptors are NOW officially a young team.


23 - Lucas Nogueira July 26, 1992 (1)
26 - Patrick Patterson March 14, 1989 (5)
26 - DeMar DeRozan August 7, 1989 (6)
29 - Kyle Lowry March 25, 1986 (9)
23 - Jonas Valanciunas May 6, 1992 (3)
24 - Terrence Ross February 5, 1991 (3)
28 - James Johnson February 20, 1987 (6)
20 - Bruno Caboclo September 21, 1995 (1)
23 - Delon Wright April 26, 1992 (R)
29 - DeMarre Carroll July 27, 1986 (6)
23 - Bismack Biyombo August 28, 1992 (4)
24 - Cory Joseph August 20, 1991 (4)
35 - Luis Scola April 30, 1980 (8)
22 - Norman Powell May 25, 1993 (R)
22 - Anthony Bennett March 14, 1993 (1)


http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

Based on data in above link Raptors are 6th youngest team and 4th least experience.


So this year, when reference is made to this being a young team, I won't pull out my hair or scream at the TV/computer screen.



As for the bold, I was wrong. Masai did a pretty good job. Trading Vasquez was the wild card - along with ridiculous value and short term contracts of Biyombo and Scola.

OUT:
Vasquez
Amir
Lou
Hans
Hayes
Fields
Steamer

7 IN:
Carroll (cap space)
Joseph (essentially traded Vasquez to gain cap space)
Scola (cap)
Wright (pick)
Biyombo (room exception)
Powell (pick via Vasquez)
Bennett (minimum - maybe)


That Vasquez trade looks really good right now:
Vasquez essentially turned in to Joseph, Powell, 2017 1st.

[GLF]

So the Raptors are NOW officially a young team.


23 - Lucas Nogueira July 26, 1992 (1)
26 - Patrick Patterson March 14, 1989 (5)
26 - DeMar DeRozan August 7, 1989 (6)
29 - Kyle Lowry March 25, 1986 (9)
23 - Jonas Valanciunas May 6, 1992 (3)
24 - Terrence Ross February 5, 1991 (3)
28 - James Johnson February 20, 1987 (6)
20 - Bruno Caboclo September 21, 1995 (1)
23 - Delon Wright April 26, 1992 (R)
29 - DeMarre Carroll July 27, 1986 (6)
23 - Bismack Biyombo August 28, 1992 (4)
24 - Cory Joseph August 20, 1991 (4)
35 - Luis Scola April 30, 1980 (8)
22 - Norman Powell May 25, 1993 (R)
22 - Anthony Bennett March 14, 1993 (1)


http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

Based on data in above link Raptors are 6th youngest team and 4th least experience.


So this year, when reference is made to this being a young team, I won't pull out my hair or scream at the TV/computer screen.



As for the bold, I was wrong. Masai did a pretty good job. Trading Vasquez was the wild card - along with ridiculous value and short term contracts of Biyombo and Scola.

OUT:
Vasquez
Amir
Lou
Hans
Hayes
Fields
Steamer

7 IN:
Carroll (cap space)
Joseph (essentially traded Vasquez to gain cap space)
Scola (cap)
Wright (pick)
Biyombo (room exception)
Powell (pick via Vasquez)
Bennett (minimum - maybe)


That Vasquez trade looks really good right now:
Vasquez essentially turned in to Joseph, Powell, 2017 1st.

Completely agree. Masai has done a really good job with what he had. Now it's Casey's turn

[007]

Vasquez essentially turned in to Joseph, Powell, 2017 1st.

That's amazing

[Fully]

So the Raptors are NOW officially a young team.


23 - Lucas Nogueira July 26, 1992 (1)
26 - Patrick Patterson March 14, 1989 (5)
26 - DeMar DeRozan August 7, 1989 (6)
29 - Kyle Lowry March 25, 1986 (9)
23 - Jonas Valanciunas May 6, 1992 (3)
24 - Terrence Ross February 5, 1991 (3)
28 - James Johnson February 20, 1987 (6)
20 - Bruno Caboclo September 21, 1995 (1)
23 - Delon Wright April 26, 1992 (R)
29 - DeMarre Carroll July 27, 1986 (6)
23 - Bismack Biyombo August 28, 1992 (4)
24 - Cory Joseph August 20, 1991 (4)
35 - Luis Scola April 30, 1980 (8)
22 - Norman Powell May 25, 1993 (R)
22 - Anthony Bennett March 14, 1993 (1)


http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

Based on data in above link Raptors are 6th youngest team and 4th least experience.

With a few exceptions, most teams that are near the bottom of the age rankings (the youngest teams) also toil near the bottom of the standings. And vice versa, you generally see more good teams as you move up in average age. So I think what's really exciting for the Raptors (and teams like the Bucks too) is that we're the sixth youngest team in the league, and still coming off back to back top 4 seeds in the Eastern Conference. That's not easy to do.

[BS10]

I think we had the best off-season out of all the teams retooling/reloading from the previous year. Other than the Clips and Spurs, and maybe the Rockets.

[draps]

If looking at it like trades
Joseph, Powell, 2017 first for Vasquez
Carroll, scola for Lou and Amir
Biyombo for Hans
Wright, Bennett in for chuck, fields, steamer
All improvements

[Joey]

Completely agree. Masai has done a really good job with what he had. Now it's Casey's turn

... way to ruin it for all of us. Haha

[GLF]

... way to ruin it for all of us. Haha

Sorry lol.

[GLF]

With a few exceptions, most teams that are near the bottom of the age rankings (the youngest teams) also toil near the bottom of the standings. And vice versa, you generally see more good teams as you move up in average age. So I think what's really exciting for the Raptors (and teams like the Bucks too) is that we're the sixth youngest team in the league, and still coming off back to back top 4 seeds in the Eastern Conference. That's not easy to do.

This is a very good point

[Bandit]

23 - Lucas Nogueira July 26, 1992 (1)
23 - Jonas Valanciunas May 6, 1992 (3)
24 - Terrence Ross February 5, 1991 (3)
20 - Bruno Caboclo September 21, 1995 (1)
23 - Delon Wright April 26, 1992 (R)
23 - Bismack Biyombo August 28, 1992 (4)
24 - Cory Joseph August 20, 1991 (4)
22 - Norman Powell May 25, 1993 (R)
22 - Anthony Bennett March 14, 1993 (1)

Every raptor under the age of 24. Not including our picks over the next couple of years, most importantly a hopeful top ten next year.

Definitely seeing some trends coming through too. Lots of length and physical tools in that group.

It's really cool to have such a deep talent pool coming up, fairly new feeling as a raptor fan lol.

So what is the ceiling for this group? Who here has the potential to be not just a role player but a defining building block moving forward? What's the worst case scenario? Who is going to turn out to be a bust?

[mcHAPPY]

With a few exceptions, most teams that are near the bottom of the age rankings (the youngest teams) also toil near the bottom of the standings. And vice versa, you generally see more good teams as you move up in average age. So I think what's really exciting for the Raptors (and teams like the Bucks too) is that we're the sixth youngest team in the league, and still coming off back to back top 4 seeds in the Eastern Conference. That's not easy to do.

In general, yes.

As a rule, there are exceptions.

Houston and OKC have been near the bottom in age and experience but near top of standings.

Obviously I think we would all be happy being in same company as Houston and OKC - i.e. contender status.

[Mapko]

In general, yes.

As a rule, there are exceptions.

Houston and OKC have been near the bottom in age and experience but near top of standings.

Obviously I think we would all be happy being in same company as Houston and OKC - i.e. contender status.

Perhaps there is another variable in Age/Experience that we are overlooking.
Experience with 1 team (Raps).
Currently we have only 4 players that have played together as Raps for 3 years or more (Demar, KL, TRoss & JVal).
Probably the greatest example of this: Spurs. I dont believe that TEAM (last year & few prior years) was top on talent (Duncan, Manu & even Parker have been past prime for some time). Kawai is very good, but not elite (yet).
Yet, the team has been very competitive. Common denominator all these years: Above group together for years. OK, having Pops as coach all those years helps a bit (perhaps a lot).
One could argue: Look at Cavs last year & Heat previous 4. Granted, but 1 common denominator (James).
Bottom line is this: We are young, have some solid pieces (veterans) -lets give them a chance to "gel" together.
Slight "problem": Is gelling likely to happen with current coach? Unfortunately we all know the answer.
The other way is to somehow acquire elite talent (either through draft or a trade). With trade route you pretty much have to get lucky & acquire young promising talent on upswing (Harden, Kawai...) because its tough to get an all star in trade. Fortunately we have (IMO) one of the best in judging young talent -Masai. Lets hope he can do his magic.

[Chr1s1anL]

With a few exceptions, most teams that are near the bottom of the age rankings (the youngest teams) also toil near the bottom of the standings. And vice versa, you generally see more good teams as you move up in average age. So I think what's really exciting for the Raptors (and teams like the Bucks too) is that we're the sixth youngest team in the league, and still coming off back to back top 4 seeds in the Eastern Conference. That's not easy to do.

Coaching

[Axel]

Coaching

Yes, very impressive despite our coaching.

[Chr1s1anL]

Yes, very impressive despite our coaching.

You can troll as much as you want but, Casey has a big part in this team being successful while being young.