The Raptors are NOT young

[The Great One]

"Again, the Raptors are NOT a young team"

"But the only thing that made me scream louder than the false "we are young" narrative is the you need VETS to win. I'm tired of this. You don't need vets - you need talent"

Thanks for pointing it out Captain Obvious.

I don't understand the point of this thread, Raps are not a young team that's obvious, so? you want them to get younger? tank? hope they catch lightning in a bottle and land a great player? that's it right?

I started posting in this forum about 2-3 years ago. One thing that i've noticed is that, most posters here are obsessed about YOUNG players, PROSPECTS/DRAFT PICKS. The 2015 Draft thread is up to 67 pages now. The Raptors would be LUCKY to land a role player at 20. Sorry but it's true.

I grew up as a Lakers fan. The mentality of a Lakers fan from what i noticed is competely different from a Raptors fan. Interesting contrast really. Lakers fans wants to win period. They don't care about young players, they never talk about tanking or draft picks. All they talk about is Championship, how to get back in that level. Raps fans on the other hand, all they talk about is young players, how to get even younger, and draft picks and tanking and Vince Carter. EVERY YEAR. They've been losing for over 20 years now and it seems like they developed a losers mentality.

[white men can't jump]

"Again, the Raptors are NOT a young team"

"But the only thing that made me scream louder than the false "we are young" narrative is the you need VETS to win. I'm tired of this. You don't need vets - you need talent"

Thanks for pointing it out Captain Obvious.

I don't understand the point of this thread, Raps are not a young team that's obvious, so? you want them to get younger? tank? hope they catch lightning in a bottle and land a great player?

I started posting in this forum about 2-3 years ago. One thing that i've noticed is that, most posters here are obsessed about YOUNG players, PROSPECTS/DRAFT PICKS. The 2015 Draft thread is up to 67 pages now. The Raptors would be LUCKY to land a role player at 20. Sorry but it's true.

I grew up as a Lakers fan. The mentality of a Lakers fan from what i noticed is competely different from a Raptors fan. Interesting contrast really. Lakers fans wants to win period. They don't care about young players, they never talk about tanking or draft picks. All they talk about is Championship, how to get back in that level. Raps fans on the other hand, all they talk about is young players, how to get even younger, and draft picks and tanking and oh Vince Carter. EVERY YEAR. They've been losing for over 20 years now and it seems like they developed a losers mentality.

That's a super poor comparison though. Probably the worst you could make. The Lakers don't talk about that because they're the most desirable destination for players by a country mile. It's not even close. It's only been a problem the last couple of years because no one wants to be Kobe's sidekick on his farewell years. The Lakers are truly a special case, and no team has been nearly as successful using their approach. In fact the closest was the Knicks over the last 10-15 years in terms of approach, and they've been the biggest laughing stock in the league for much of that time.

The reason it keeps coming up is because we've never had that piece to build around. Carter was the closest. And unless you're the Lakers, it's a lot easier to get them young, as in either draft them, or trade for them while they're still early in their careers (ie before their second contract). Deeper in their careers, if they're really good, you're going to struggle bidding against the more glamorous or more successful teams. Or really hard to outbid teams with better assets in trying to trade for such guys.

[mcHAPPY]

"Again, the Raptors are NOT a young team"

"But the only thing that made me scream louder than the false "we are young" narrative is the you need VETS to win. I'm tired of this. You don't need vets - you need talent"

Thanks for pointing it out Captain Obvious.

I don't understand the point of this thread, Raps are not a young team that's obvious, so? you want them to get younger? tank? hope they catch lightning in a bottle and land a great player?

I started posting in this forum about 2-3 years ago. One thing that i've noticed is that, most posters here are obsessed about YOUNG players, PROSPECTS/DRAFT PICKS. The 2015 Draft thread is up to 67 pages now. The Raptors would be LUCKY to land a role player at 20. Sorry but it's true.

I grew up as a Lakers fan. The mentality of a Lakers fan from what i noticed is competely different from a Raptors fan. Interesting contrast really. Lakers fans wants to win period. They don't care about young players, they never talk about tanking or draft picks. All they talk about is Championship, how to get back in that level. Raps fans on the other hand, all they talk about is young players, how to get even younger, and draft picks and tanking and oh Vince Carter. EVERY YEAR. They've been losing for over 20 years now and it seems like they developed a losers mentality.

No, I'm pretty sure you did miss the point.

You've also missed the importance on rookie contracts in light of rising salary cap, the ability to keep a drafted first round pick upwards of 8-9 years, and the value of prospects and picks in trades for top tier talent.

You also must have missed the memo where the Lakers and Raptors are hardly comparable. The Lakers have a history of winning, a great climate, 2nd largest market in league, and the draw of Hollywood - all of that matters in free agency. So yeah, no shit Lakers fans might have higher expectations because they have 3 ways to get top tier talent whereas the Raptors are stuck with 2 (draft and trade).


As for the draft thread being up to 67 pages, I suspect that is largely because RR is a great forum with a lot of active members. Sounds like being a Raptor fan is wearing on you - don't worry, you're not the only one.

[mcHAPPY]

Oh, I forgot.....

And all of this comes back to the Raptors currently being built on a flawed foundation.

Anyone who can't see that is a blind homer and I'm still waiting for an answer to how the current core adds the talent required to take the next step. If you add in free agency, you lose your depth. If you keep what you have you're limited to MLE, BAE, and minimum contracts. The only answer would be for Bruno to become a star or the 20th pick..... good luck with that.

[2KJ]

"Again, the Raptors are NOT a young team"

"But the only thing that made me scream louder than the false "we are young" narrative is the you need VETS to win. I'm tired of this. You don't need vets - you need talent"

Thanks for pointing it out Captain Obvious.

I don't understand the point of this thread, Raps are not a young team that's obvious, so? you want them to get younger? tank? hope they catch lightning in a bottle and land a great player?

I started posting in this forum about 2-3 years ago. One thing that i've noticed is that, most posters here are obsessed about YOUNG players, PROSPECTS/DRAFT PICKS. The 2015 Draft thread is up to 67 pages now. The Raptors would be LUCKY to land a role player at 20. Sorry but it's true.

I grew up as a Lakers fan. The mentality of a Lakers fan from what i noticed is competely different from a Raptors fan. Interesting contrast really. Lakers fans wants to win period. They don't care about young players, they never talk about tanking or draft picks. All they talk about is Championship, how to get back in that level. Raps fans on the other hand, all they talk about is young players, how to get even younger, and draft picks and tanking and Vince Carter. EVERY YEAR. They've been losing for over 20 years now and it seems like they developed a losers mentality.

It's much easier for the Lakers fan to think about winning right away when you have 16 titles, great history, huge basketball market, an owner (late owner) who actually cares about the team's success and not just make money out of it, and mostly have teams with at least one hall of famer (old or young).

Who did the Raptors have? Stoudemire, TMac, VC, Mo Pete, Bosh, Bargs, Demar, Lowry??? VC would still be the greatest but he's definitely not in the level of a Kobe, Duncan, KG, Lebron. He could have, had he got the heart of a Kobe or KG and/or management surrounded him with talent/had TMac stayed.

There's no real comparison between these franchises. It's like comparing the Detroit Red Wings to let's say the Florida Panthers. Or the Yankees to Rockies.

[ebrian]

I think the key reason Raptor fans have the mindset of getting younger all the time is because free agents leave. That's just a reality of life, not just because we live in igloos (sarcasm), but because people move on. TRex is absolutely correct that it is far more difficult to build a team to become a championship contender by constantly getting younger like the way Houston did it. The odds of correctly guessing that James Harden is a future MVP are small too. But it is also difficult to win by adding veteran stars when you are perceived to be in a small market. No matter how much we love our city and how much we know our city rules, the majority of NBA players' first thought is that they would rather go somewhere else. Even that initial sense of doubt puts us at a huge disadvantage.

[mcHAPPY]

I think the key reason Raptor fans have the mindset of getting younger all the time is because free agents leave. That's just a reality of life, not just because we live in igloos (sarcasm), but because people move on. TRex is absolutely correct that it is far more difficult to build a team to become a championship contender by constantly getting younger like the way Houston did it. The odds of correctly guessing that James Harden is a future MVP are small too. But it is also difficult to win by adding veteran stars when you are perceived to be in a small market. No matter how much we love our city and how much we know our city rules, the majority of NBA players' first thought is that they would rather go somewhere else. Even that initial sense of doubt puts us at a huge disadvantage.

Good points.

But why do free agents leave?

They leave because they can't win.

7-8 seasons is more than enough time to put a winner together.

So what are you to do?

Be happy with a first round exit?

Be happy with shitty basketball despite 48/49 wins?

Sell high on your assets or wait for them to leave?

Try to get stars at 20 or go with much higher odds and get in to the middle of lottery or better?


To each their own but I know what I would do and settling isn't it.

[The Great One]

I think the key reason Raptor fans have the mindset of getting younger all the time is because free agents leave. That's just a reality of life, not just because we live in igloos (sarcasm), but because people move on. TRex is absolutely correct that it is far more difficult to build a team to become a championship contender by constantly getting younger like the way Houston did it. The odds of correctly guessing that James Harden is a future MVP are small too. But it is also difficult to win by adding veteran stars when you are perceived to be in a small market. No matter how much we love our city and how much we know our city rules, the majority of NBA players' first thought is that they would rather go somewhere else. Even that initial sense of doubt puts us at a huge disadvantage.

Like i said earlier i grew up as a Lakers fan(and i still love them) so i guess i just have that Lakers fan mentality. Tanking should never be an option period. Well, unless you have no choice like if you're the Buffalo Sabres or the NY Knicks or the Lakers last season.

But anyway, you mentioned the Rockets. How did the Rockets got this good? they traded for a good young player with star potential in Harden. A guy that was overlooked in OKC. The Rockets weren't tanking team before Harden. They were a middle of the pack team just like the Raps are now.

I created a H. Barnes thread here last week, i don't even know where that is now(mods?) but whatever. I'm not saying he's James Harden, but Barnes is a good young player with star potential. A guy that is being overlooked right now in GS(sounds familiar?)Another one is Zach LaVine, good young player with upside. Thse are the type of players that i would target if i'm Masai.

[JimiCliff]

Like i said earlier i grew up as a Lakers fan(and i still love them) so i guess i just have that Lakers fan mentality. Tanking should never be an option period. Well, unless you have no choice like if you're the Buffalo Sabres or the NY Knicks or the Lakers last season.

But anyway, you mentioned the Rockets. How did the Rockets got this good? they traded for a good young player with star potential in Harden. A guy that was overlooked in OKC. The Rockets weren't tanking team before Harden. They were a middle of the pack team just like the Raps are now.

I created a H. Barnes thread here last week, i don't even know where that is now(mods?) but whatever. I'm not saying he's James Harden, but Barnes is a good young player with star potential. A guy that is being overlooked right now in GS(sounds familiar?)Another one is Zach LaVine, good young player with upside. Thse are the type of players that i would target if i'm Masai.

Agree with you 100% about Barnes. That guy gets buckets in sneaky big moments, when the other team's on a run and G-State needs someone to stop the bleeding. And he has great defensive instincts as well.

I feel like the Warriors can't possibly keep all of Steph, Klay, Dray and Barnes, and Barnes will be the odd one out. If I'm Masai, this guy's at the very top of my most wanted list.

[mcHAPPY]

Like i said earlier i grew up as a Lakers fan(and i still love them) so i guess i just have that Lakers fan mentality. Tanking should never be an option period. Well, unless you have no choice like if you're the Buffalo Sabres or the NY Knicks or the Lakers last season.

But anyway, you mentioned the Rockets. How did the Rockets got this good? they traded for a good young player with star potential in Harden. A guy that was overlooked in OKC. The Rockets weren't tanking team before Harden. They were a middle of the pack team just like the Raps are now.

I created a H. Barnes thread here last week, i don't even know where that is now(mods?) but whatever. I'm not saying he's James Harden, but Barnes is a good young player with star potential. A guy that is being overlooked right now in GS(sounds familiar?)Another one is Zach LaVine, good young player with upside. Thse are the type of players that i would target if i'm Masai.

Who is looking to tank?

Trading DeRozan is certainly not going to make the raptors a bad team.

And how did Houston get Harden? They gave up a solid starter, prospects, and picks.

Gotta give to get.

[special1]

Like i said earlier i grew up as a Lakers fan(and i still love them) so i guess i just have that Lakers fan mentality. Tanking should never be an option period. Well, unless you have no choice like if you're the Buffalo Sabres or the NY Knicks or the Lakers last season.

But anyway, you mentioned the Rockets. How did the Rockets got this good? they traded for a good young player with star potential in Harden. A guy that was overlooked in OKC. The Rockets weren't tanking team before Harden. They were a middle of the pack team just like the Raps are now.

I created a H. Barnes thread here last week, i don't even know where that is now(mods?) but whatever. I'm not saying he's James Harden, but Barnes is a good young player with star potential. A guy that is being overlooked right now in GS(sounds familiar?)Another one is Zach LaVine, good young player with upside. Thse are the type of players that i would target if i'm Masai.

I'm with you - Zach Lavine looks like he'll be a star. I like Barnes too.

People who consistently bring up tanking as the easiest way to bring in talent seem to forget that you NEED to hit a home run or you just have another Bosh or VC type of player ( and that's if you're extremely lucky!).

BC tried to tank. Yes he did. Ben Uzoh caused us to miss out on Lillard or Barnes. Even then, we could've had JV and Drummond.

Just because we have a high draft pick, doesn't mean we'll pick the right player. Obviously if you're lucky enough to get a top 5, your chances are higher, but you need to be really really really bad to be in the top 5. AND you need to get really lucky in picking the right player.

We're not a young team but I'm consistently reading posters say trade our 25 year old (DD) and keep our 29 year old (KL) who makes more $$ in a smaller cap. Both were all stars and both received player of the month honours this past season (DD more recent). What is the logic in keeping the much older player of the two? I just don't get it.

Also, Everyone seems to agree that Lowry is the better player. Wouldn't he bring us more value in a trade considering that his $12 mil will look real good when the cap increases? The fact that his age doesn't line up with the young guys on our roster or the fact that weren't not even close to contention....I think if we are to trade one of them, KL has to be the one. However, I just don't see any way that both are traded by next season. I do believe you can trade one and the team may take a step back but be better in the future.

I think we have to target guys like Middleton/Carrol in free agency. If not, look to make trades for players such as Barnes or Lavine. I would even take look at a guy like Tony Snell. I would still go after Cory Joseph to be our backup/spot starting PG. we can still get younger.... Most of the older guys are free agents anyways.


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[2KJ]

I stand corrected. Raps will probably need to tank and get some real talent in order to be a contender even in the weak eastern conference. Watching Game 2 tonight, Lebron has entered into MJ-esque legendary status and I don't think any of the current east teams can stop him and the Cavs from making an MJ-Bulls like run. They're just murdering the Hawks right now, similar to how the Wizards did the Raps in game 2.

I'd keep JV, Bruno, Bebe, Patterson, Demar, and maybe Ross. Let Mike Babcock coach the Raps as well LOOOOL! ��

[The Great One]

Who is looking to tank?

Trading DeRozan is certainly not going to make the raptors a bad team.

And how did Houston get Harden? They gave up a solid starter, prospects, and picks.

Gotta give to get.

Umm...you?

C'mon now. The purpose of this thread is to get younger right? you want this team to get younger. How do you do that? you tank. You've been on the tank wagon for years now. Be honest lol.

And how the hell did DeRozan even got into this? i'm tired of talking DeRozan man. There's already a DeRozan thread w/ about a million replies. Go post in that thread if you want to talk DeRozan.

As for the Harden trade, HOU gave up Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 1st round picks and a couple of scrubs. Not really much if you think about it. Well, it's not much UNLESS you're into draft picks.

[The Great One]

Agree with you 100% about Barnes. That guy gets buckets in sneaky big moments, when the other team's on a run and G-State needs someone to stop the bleeding. And he has great defensive instincts as well.

I feel like the Warriors can't possibly keep all of Steph, Klay, Dray and Barnes, and Barnes will be the odd one out. If I'm Masai, this guy's at the very top of my most wanted list.

That's what Barnes does. He's a big shot maker. I remember him hitting a bunch of clutch shots/game winner in college.

GSW uses him mostly as a spot up shooter but he can do a whole lot more than that trust me. He can post you up, he can beat you off the dribble, he's a pretty explosive finisher. He's a very good player.

[Mindlessness]

Umm...you?

C'mon now. The purpose of this thread is to get younger right? you want this team to get younger. How do you do that? you tank. You've been on the tank wagon for years now. Be honest lol.

And how the hell did DeRozan even got into this? i'm tired of talking DeRozan man. There's already a DeRozan thread w/ about a million replies. Go post in that thread if you want to talk DeRozan.

As for the Harden trade, HOU gave up Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 1st round picks and a couple of scrubs. Not really much if you think about it. Well, it's not much UNLESS you're into draft picks.

Personally, I do not equate getting younger as tanking. Especially when I stare at Boston.