Everything Derozan

[mcHAPPY]

Ran Hoops Hype (IIRC), then co-founded Basketball-Insiders. Short answer is, no, not really. Not like Woj or Stein do.

Founder of HoopsWorld.com, sold to the same group that bought HoopsHype.com.

When those new owners wanted to shut down HoppsWorld Kyler went all Mad Men and started a new, but same, project based on same premise - BasketballInsiders.com


As I said I don't give him much value of sources but when it comes to Orlando I tend to give him credibility because he is based out of Orlando.

[Axel]

Everything Demar Derozan

ummmm wait what, did i miss something here, winshared ? I don't know why your popping of about that. maybe some sort of confusion ill take the blame for.... when i wrote win% I meant how much his team wins like 50% on the season would be a record of 41 wins and 21 losses. but just out of curiosity are you suggesting the players above would be as efficient as DD being the man scorer on our team playing under a very unfavorable DC iso small ball lol fuck our coach is nuts ..

id like to ask you this to do you think that if Demar replaced those players mentioned on there current teams playing under the same system that they would out play Demar ?

Lol so you don't understand the correlation between your comment of "Win%" (a team based stat) and WinShares (an individual stat used to determine the contribution of each player to said wins). Wow.

Well if you want to use Team Winning %, then Danny Green (Spurs), Cory Joseph (Spurs), DeMarre Carroll (Atlanta) and Aminu (Dallas) all played on teams with much better winning %. So good luck with that.

If you really want to open the "inefficient chucker" conversation, we certainly can, but the point is, for the $18M-$20M that you said for Demar, we can get multiple valuable contributors, proven guys who can help us win. Can any of them fill Demar's role in Casey offence? No. Can Demar? not really if winning is the barometer.

Despite DD's elite FTRate and 20PPG, he hasn't contributed to wins that much. Those 6 names I posted were just a select few, there were 171 players (with min of 15mpg) who had better WS48 than Demar. So even while being the leading scorer of a 49 win team, Demar couldn't even crack the Top 150 players.

As for your final question, could Demar outperform those guys if he were on those teams, hard to say. Most of those guys are either better 3 point shooters or better defenders. Carroll is definitely better at both. Green might be (well discussed so far). Aminu is a great defender and similar 3point range as DD. CoJo is a point guard but yeah. So I dunno. Demar's lack of perimeter shooting would be hard to fit on these other teams. While his Defence would largely be passable, he wouldn't get as depended on as Carroll. Probably gets equal matchup as Green (with Kwahi taking top opponent) and Green does have impressive SPG (1.2) and BPG (1.1) - DD is 1.2 and 0.3.


PS - a record of 41-21 is not 50% win%. Closer to 66%.

[Axel]

come on man

Come on what? A 3 point shooter and defender at SG, paired with a PF who could start is likely better value than just DD. No matter how good you think DD is, you can't really claim he is better than 2 players combined.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

Come on what? A 3 point shooter and defender at SG, paired with a PF who could start is likely better value than just DD. No matter how good you think DD is, you can't really claim he is better than 2 players combined.

You know there's more to basketball than 3 pointers right? You seem to value that more than anything else.

Interesting stats:

Paul Millsap (the darling of many posters here who wanted to trade him straight up for Demar) shot .407 from the field and .306 from 3s through 16 games in the playoffs this year. Paul Millsap is a career .289 3-point shooter through 71 career playoff games.

Kyle Korver (best 3 point shooter in the NBA) shot .391 from the field and .355 from 3s in the playoffs this year through 14 games.

This year Demar shot .400 from the field and .375 from 3s through 4 games this year in the playoffs. Last year he shot .385 from the field and .333 from 3s through 7 games last year. Looks to me like he's a better 3 point shooter during the playoffs than he is during the regular season. He might even be better than you give him credit for. Demar is a career .346 3-point shooter in the playoffs (11 games).

Just interesting to note that for all the shit you give him for his 3 point shooting, he actually seems to perform better when it matters (the playoffs).

Oh... One last thing. Before you can say he doesn't take a lot of 3s.....please note that he takes almost twice as many 3s per game in the playoffs than he does during the regular season.

*Drops mic*


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[KHD]

You know there's more to basketball than 3 pointers right? You seem to value that more than anything else.

Interesting stats:

Paul Millsap (the darling of many posters here who wanted to trade him straight up for Demar) shot .407 from the field and .306 from 3s through 16 games in the playoffs this year. Paul Millsap is a career .289 3-point shooter through 71 career playoff games.

Kyle Korver (best 3 point shooter in the NBA) shot .391 from the field and .355 from 3s in the playoffs this year through 14 games.

This year Demar shot .400 from the field and .375 from 3s through 4 games this year in the playoffs. Last year he shot .385 from the field and .333 from 3s through 7 games last year. Looks to me like he's a better 3 point shooter during the playoffs than he is during the regular season. He might even be better than you give him credit for. Demar is a career .346 3-point shooter in the playoffs (11 games).

Just interesting to note that for all the shit you give him for his 3 point shooting, he actually seems to perform better when it matters (the playoffs).

Oh... One last thing. Before you can say he doesn't take a lot of 3s.....please note that he takes almost twice as many 3s per game in the playoffs than he does during the regular season.

*Drops mic*


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yes, i will absolutely use the 11 playoff games demar has played in to evaluate his 3pt shooting ability, rather than the 100's of regular season games...

[Axel]

You know there's more to basketball than 3 pointers right? You seem to value that more than anything else.

Interesting stats:

Paul Millsap (the darling of many posters here who wanted to trade him straight up for Demar) shot .407 from the field and .306 from 3s through 16 games in the playoffs this year. Paul Millsap is a career .289 3-point shooter through 71 career playoff games.

Kyle Korver (best 3 point shooter in the NBA) shot .391 from the field and .355 from 3s in the playoffs this year through 14 games.

This year Demar shot .400 from the field and .375 from 3s through 4 games this year in the playoffs. Last year he shot .385 from the field and .333 from 3s through 7 games last year. Looks to me like he's a better 3 point shooter during the playoffs than he is during the regular season. He might even be better than you give him credit for. Demar is a career .346 3-point shooter in the playoffs (11 games).

Just interesting to note that for all the shit you give him for his 3 point shooting, he actually seems to perform better when it matters (the playoffs).

Oh... One last thing. Before you can say he doesn't take a lot of 3s.....please note that he takes almost twice as many 3s per game in the playoffs than he does during the regular season.

*Drops mic*


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Know what else is interesting, I didn't mention any of those players and the one I did you leave out. So instead of actually talking on my point, you created an entirely fictional point to argue.

Since you clearly missed the point, I said that Demar DeRozan, by himself, is not worth a SG with deep range, solid defence and championship experience AND a PF who could start for us next year (with decent range himself).

There literally isn't an argument to be made that supports DD being a viable threat from 3 point range. So please, just leave the mic on the floor. We'll clean up after you.

[JimiCliff]

You know there's more to basketball than 3 pointers right? You seem to value that more than anything else.

Interesting stats:

Paul Millsap (the darling of many posters here who wanted to trade him straight up for Demar) shot .407 from the field and .306 from 3s through 16 games in the playoffs this year. Paul Millsap is a career .289 3-point shooter through 71 career playoff games.

Kyle Korver (best 3 point shooter in the NBA) shot .391 from the field and .355 from 3s in the playoffs this year through 14 games.

This year Demar shot .400 from the field and .375 from 3s through 4 games this year in the playoffs. Last year he shot .385 from the field and .333 from 3s through 7 games last year. Looks to me like he's a better 3 point shooter during the playoffs than he is during the regular season. He might even be better than you give him credit for. Demar is a career .346 3-point shooter in the playoffs (11 games).

Just interesting to note that for all the shit you give him for his 3 point shooting, he actually seems to perform better when it matters (the playoffs).

Oh... One last thing. Before you can say he doesn't take a lot of 3s.....please note that he takes almost twice as many 3s per game in the playoffs than he does during the regular season.

*Drops mic*


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*Picks up mic*

So his shooting from 3 - a small part of his game - increases during the playoffs, so he's 'performing better'.

But his overall shooting goes from bad to worse.

'Performs better when it matters'.

Totally.

[planetmars]

What's the most you would pay DeMar after next season?

My biggest concern with keeping DeMar is what his next contract will be. In 2016 the salary cap will go from $63M to an estimated $89M. DeMar has a player option that he will most likely exercise so that he can get in on the fun. The problem is many teams will have cap space that year and most will be able to afford paying DeMar his maximum.

DeMar's maximum will be about $24M. If someone offered DeMar $20M would you want him back at that amount? He'd be a UFA, but let's assume he'd give the Raptors the opportunity to match.

At what value would you say he's not worth keeping?

Note: Currently DeMar makes $9.5M which is 15% of the cap. 15% of $89M is $13.3M.

[thead]

12 -14 per year

anything over 16 starts getting a little ridiculous

[Jangles]

Hopefully $0.00?

[Just Is]

If it wasn't for the cap going up, it'd be very hard to convince me of anything higher than 12.

Because it is, somewhere in the 13 to 17 range (ideally, 15 would be the most I'd want but I wouldn't consider up to 17 to be too big of an overpayment but I would only do if the alternative was to lose him for nothing and because I expect there to be a LOT of overpayments being made during that summer by all teams).

Anything higher than 15, I would look at skeptically. Anything higher than 17 (even 17.1), I would drive him to the airport myself (hypothetically if I was the one making the choice).

[007]

Depends on how he plays next season of course, but I wouldn't go over 15 million.

[Axel]

$12 Million was the arbitrary number that first came to mind, and since a couple of others have already posted that number, guess I'm going to stick with my first instinct.

[planetmars]

For me the number is $17M. Lowry got paid $12M which is 19% of the cap.. $17M is about 19% of $89M.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

Know what else is interesting, I didn't mention any of those players and the one I did you leave out. So instead of actually talking on my point, you created an entirely fictional point to argue.

Since you clearly missed the point, I said that Demar DeRozan, by himself, is not worth a SG with deep range, solid defence and championship experience AND a PF who could start for us next year (with decent range himself).

There literally isn't an argument to be made that supports DD being a viable threat from 3 point range. So please, just leave the mic on the floor. We'll clean up after you.

*Takes back the mic from JimiCliff*

This is fun!

Ok since you asked Axel....warning... You shoulda kept quiet.

Danny Green shot .344 from the field in this year's playoffs and .300 from 3s through 7 games....yuck!

Ersan Ilyasova shot .328 from the field and .217 from 3s in this year's playoffs this year through 6 games.... Ugh.

Win shares you say? Lol you can keep that advanced stat.

So no, I would rather keep Demar than those guys. They aren't as good as people on here claim (looking at you too Primer) and they aren't even the focus of opposing defences.

I just killed Axel and Primer with one shot. I don't want to go to jail....I'm sorry!




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