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There has never been a better time to rebuild than right now

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  • #76
    brothersteve wrote: View Post
    That's a good strategy to make the Raptors = Timberwolves, 11 years in the lottery & counting.

    Toronto (& Minny) isn't Boston.

    Toronto has to follow the Hawks plan to have any hope of attracting free agents - probably means a lot of 1st round exits before getting lucky enough to find the talent to get to the Conference Finals - but that's a lot better than the hopeless situation in Minny
    Minny has had good teams in recent years. If not for injuries and playing in the west they could have been "atlantic Division Champs"

    Assets win in this league. End of story.

    We have assets that can be transferred into more assets that are younger with potential for growth beyond the value of the current what we currently have.

    That in turn opens up far more options down the road.

    Comment


    • #77
      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
      Lots of talk about Lowry...

      But as you point out a few posts down, regarding Dragic, there are potential issues for a starting PG going to Houston. Namely they'd have to play off the ball to Harden a lot. I think guys like Dragic and Lowry are too good to accept that at this point in their careers. And if Dragic wouldn't be happy in that scenario, the more prickly Lowry isn't likely to be either.

      I find interesting the question says PG/SG....Greivis Vasquez anyone? Imagine turning Vasquez into assets, and still having Lowry and/or DeMar to do whatever with. Greivis could be a very good fit in Houston. Can hit the 3. Can play on/off the ball. Can run the p'n'r. You can use him to back up both Harden and Beverley (if Beverley is still around).

      Maybe a trade where Houston picks up Papanikolaou's team option, then you get Pap and Jones for Greivis. We get a two young forwards who don't look to have a place in Houston, and they get a guy who can be their combo guard.
      Honestly can't see any reason Houston would want GV. Any value that he still has in the league is as a former pass first PG. A back court of GV and Harden would be a disaster on defence and GV isn't a good enough shooter or driver to open up opportunities for Harden.

      I think Houston ends up with Lawson. What he lacks in perimeter shooting he makes up for in dribble drive, allowing Harden to take some possessions off-ball (less energy) and take advantage of collapsing defences.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

      Comment


      • #78
        JWash wrote: View Post
        Honestly could see this happening.

        The only alternative really would be to parlay Lowry into the Knicks pick somehow and get Mudiay or Russell, raising the longevity and ceiling of the team. Then making a signing in free agency who turns out to be a star in a larger role on our team (Tobias Harris maybe?) could actually allow us to "rebuild" without actually sucking and still having a pretty high ceiling.

        Mudiay - 19
        DeRozan - 25
        Harris - 22
        Valanciunas - 23
        Bruno - 19

        Isn't a bad foundation to start a "rebuild" on either. But definitely the trading away Lowry/DD and totally tanking it option is there as well. We'd only be competing with Philly in an out and out tank atm, and if we traded away our backcourt we'd arguably have less talent than them.

        That would be pretty awesome if Lowry could be traded for a top-5 draft pick. It seems rather unlikely though. Lowry moves the needle a little bit for the Knicks but given his age and injury history, it would be tough to justify such a high draft pick for him.

        Comment


        • #79
          brothersteve wrote: View Post
          That's a good strategy to make the Raptors = Timberwolves, 11 years in the lottery & counting.

          Toronto (& Minny) isn't Boston.

          Toronto has to follow the Hawks plan to have any hope of attracting free agents - probably means a lot of 1st round exits before getting lucky enough to find the talent to get to the Conference Finals - but that's a lot better than the hopeless situation in Minny
          Whaaaa?

          Are we looking at different teams in minny right now? I would be ecstatic if we were them right now. In 2-3 years people will be clamoring to play with the Wiggins/Okafor or Towns Combo. They're learning from Garnet. They have Rubio to distribute, Lavine developing. How is that bad situation? Hell even just wiggins is a good situation lol.

          I would be amazed if they aren't competitive in the next few years. And yea they are going to get some nice FA signings. Ring chasing vets would love a young core like that to play with.

          Comment


          • #80
            mengtot wrote: View Post
            Everything is a crap shot, even rebuilding / tanking.

            1. I think the Raptors player values are lower now because of their performance from the playoffs. Because of it other teams will not be as willing to trade their assets for the Raptors' perceived "assets" this 2015 offseason as some believe. Closer to the 2016 trade deadline is where the party will be.

            2. Same rebuild can begin next year. I'd rather waste a year making the playoffs this offseason in a still weak Atlantic division. It will be a make or break year for DD / JV / TR so this year is as good as any to make a go at it. No sense for the Raptors to be in hurry to possibly become the next Minn / Sac waiting for the next superstar to somehow show up to the team? What's one more year of the playoff contention compared to a possible long playoff drought like those teams?

            3. Or they can just keep acquiring young assets / picks until someone pans out. Not all top players in the league were top 10 draft picks just like not all top 10 draft picks become top players. I did not say Bebe / Bruno will be great players so I don't understand what you were trying to imply. I was not saying they were the ones to build around. The 5 rookie contracts that will be potentially on the roster from 2016 is just the starting point for the rebuild as the Raptors will still have options to do a complete rebuild from 2016 onwards.
            Without knowing the actual trade values, it's all speculation but I have a hard time believing that their trade value is down now due to how they played the last half the season but is going to go back up based on their play next season. If you believe Jan-Apr was the real team and making changes now is the right call, or you believe the team is better than that and you roll forward.

            As for waiting until 2016 to start a rebuild, if you know it's necessary you do it now, cause I ain't gonna live forever. You don't drag it on.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • #81
              JimiCliff wrote: View Post
              Short answer, short sighted
              not sight sighted - reality.

              I've followed/covered the team since they started. No one wants to watch a team that plans on losing and why should they?

              Slowly upgrading the roster each year & trying to get better while winning is watchable.

              After this year, cap goes up by about $20m each summer for 2 years - that should be the focus
              The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

              Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

              Comment


              • #82
                brothersteve wrote: View Post
                not sight sighted - reality.

                I've followed/covered the team since they started. No one wants to watch a team that plans on losing and why should they?

                Slowly upgrading the roster each year & trying to get better while winning is watchable.

                After this year, cap goes up by about $20m each summer for 2 years - that should be the focus
                But it really isn't... I found myself wanting to walk away from most games this year because they were brutal. The rest of the league is going to get a whole lot better than the raps pretty quickly if we don't do something magical

                You know who was more fun to watch? Milwaukee and Boston. the Young teams playing hard trying to get better. GS and Cleveland because they have amazing talent. Atlanta and SA because they have beautiful systems.

                Raps are falling from the watchable category

                Comment


                • #83
                  brothersteve wrote: View Post
                  That's a good strategy to make the Raptors = Timberwolves, 11 years in the lottery & counting.

                  Toronto (& Minny) isn't Boston.

                  Toronto has to follow the Hawks plan to have any hope of attracting free agents - probably means a lot of 1st round exits before getting lucky enough to find the talent to get to the Conference Finals - but that's a lot better than the hopeless situation in Minny
                  The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with you. This team had huge holes in SF, PF and back up C. If we address them this season, then who says this team will not be better than Atlanta and Washington and CHI !!!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Bandit wrote: View Post
                    Whaaaa?

                    Are we looking at different teams in minny right now? I would be ecstatic if we were them right now. In 2-3 years people will be clamoring to play with the Wiggins/Okafor or Towns Combo. They're learning from Garnet. They have Rubio to distribute, Lavine developing. How is that bad situation? Hell even just wiggins is a good situation lol.

                    I would be amazed if they aren't competitive in the next few years. And yea they are going to get some nice FA signings. Ring chasing vets would love a young core like that to play with.
                    Who believes Minny can hang on to the talent they acquire?

                    NBA FA destination or the coldest spot in pro sports & farm system to the league
                    The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

                    Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      brothersteve wrote: View Post
                      You'd really trade winning the Atlantic Division again to tank for the opportunity to be right back where the team is now in 5 years? Really?
                      I'm sorry.

                      Did the Atlantic Division championship guarantee a first round win?

                      No. No it didn't and no it doesn't.

                      This team is going NOWHERE.

                      I hope Masai can prove me wrong on the limitations facing building this roster but I struggle to see - and will be very happy if proven incorrect.

                      I've been asking anyone and everyone to tell me why this group should stay together. You want to take a stab at it? And please offer more than the above.

                      This team was built to make the playoffs. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Now what?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        brothersteve wrote: View Post
                        Who believes Minny can hang on to the talent they acquire?

                        NBA FA destination or the coldest spot in pro sports & farm system to the league
                        So with that logic, Minnesota should just fold their team since they have no hope, despite landing one of the most hyped prospects ever (and one that is probably used to the cold).

                        And people talk about a "losers mentality" for wanting to trade KL/DD. sheesh.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          brothersteve wrote: View Post
                          short answer - yes the Raptors are favored to win their Division next year & yes, losing sucks, winning is better
                          Winning what?

                          49 regular season games?

                          Big whoop.

                          How about winning a SINGLE playoff game?

                          This team played under .500 over the last 60% of the season and then got swept.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                            Winning what?

                            49 regular season games?

                            Big whoop.

                            How about winning a SINGLE playoff game?

                            This team played under .500 over the last 60% of the season and then got swept.
                            Swept badly, with home court.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              brothersteve wrote: View Post
                              That's a good strategy to make the Raptors = Timberwolves, 11 years in the lottery & counting.

                              Toronto (& Minny) isn't Boston.

                              Toronto has to follow the Hawks plan to have any hope of attracting free agents - probably means a lot of 1st round exits before getting lucky enough to find the talent to get to the Conference Finals - but that's a lot better than the hopeless situation in Minny
                              David Kahn is your rationale?

                              It doesn't matter what your franchise does with poor management and/or poor decisions.



                              As for Atlanta....you know they traded one of their best player and let the other walk in free agency plus had a brand new front office come in and hire a new coach.

                              As many have said, trading Lowry and DeRozan is not a guarantee of losing.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Bear wrote: View Post
                                really though...

                                Especially with so many lotto teams currently talking like they are interested in moving picks to compete now.

                                This is a very unique time in which there are more than a few very very solid players in the draft that could be picked up and groomed together, with a few possible franchise guys as well outside of the top 2 or 3.
                                Which lotto teams are looking to move their pick and who would trade it for either DD / Lowry?

                                Comment

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