There has never been a better time to rebuild than right now

[Axel]

I would disagree just on the fact that championships are so hard to attain. I would say a repeatable conference finals team (or top 4 if they remove conferences). From their I think there is not much to do but keep grinding at it...

My point is more about how you never really stop building. Even if you win 1, it's a new challenge to win again. Yes, accepting less as success is fair, but the goal should always be the same. To win titles.

[Axel]

So.... we have to wait another few years for Raptors to get past the first round in the playoffs???
sigh...

I don't know that there is much of a choice in the matter. Back to back home court playoffs didn't get it done with this group, if that was the ceiling then 3 years is lucky.

[Axel]

There has never been a better time to rebuild than right now

What is everyone's threshold for returned value when it comes to trading DD and Lowry respectively?

I see the most popular opinion on the rebuild side is to convert them into picks in this draft, but any scenario that has either one bringing back a top 5 pick is a fairytale, let alone both of them yielding such a return. I could potentially see the Kings working a Lowry deal in exchange for the 6th overall choice, but only because Vivek is such a wildcard. And even that could see the Raptors give up another asset in the process or take back a negative asset in a bad salary.

I guess my question is where do you draw the line? Do you trade DeRozan for a top 7 pick and nothing lower? Top 10? A lottery pick? What about Lowry?

For me, ideal DD is an elite prospect and a player who can either defend or shoot immediately. This goes back to my Charlotte proposal of Noah Vonleh (elite prospect) and Lance Stephenson (can defend, and has a team option, so only 1 year risk on a buy low player).

For KL, Stauskas and Thompson from Sac would be my min return. Obviously you push for the 6th pick, but I really don't trust Lowry to return (under Casey) and play well for the entire season. I really do expect his value to be lower next off-season if he isn't moved before then. Stauskas would provide shooting on a rookie deal (plus the nice publicity of adding a local kid) and Thompson can provide some rebounding as the back-up PF (PPatt likely starts in my plan with Amir likely gone unless he accepts team friendly deal).

Draft a PG at 20 (Delon Wright), and start the rebuild. If you get #6 - Justice Winslow (or if either top PG slips) would be top target.

A potential group of Wright, Stauskas, Winslow, Vonleh and JV to build around plus Bruno and the future picks.

[MACK11]

In lebrons rookie season he was absolutely amazing

In his 1st NBA game at age 18

He had a 25pts 9asts 6rebs 4stls game.

[McRealistic]

Ask any player why they play and the answer is to win.

If you're not playing to win, you're a chump.... albeit in the NBA, likely a rich chump.

re: the bold, I started the thread. I think I know what the thread is actually about. It is about contending for championships. This team is not contending for championships nor will it on the current path or foundation.

I don't know how you can confuse what I have been saying or even pretend to confuse them.

Did anyone here say that we do not have to compete to win ?
Did anyone say that are goal should be ONLY to get pass the first round ?

The answer to both question is NO.

Are you familiar with a word called milestone ? To reach the NBA championship, there are various milestones that a team needs to get to before the NBA championship.

Here, I am and many people are interested in knowing how long it will take us to reach the first milestone, basically where we are at 2015 at this moment

Based on this simple question, in the other thread, we got time lines as optimistic as 1-2 years to 5-6 years.

Again, no one is saying that our goal should not be wining it all No one is saying that we need to be happy to just make the play offs.

I don't know what is so confusing about this

[McRealistic]

What is everyone's threshold for returned value when it comes to trading DD and Lowry respectively?

I see the most popular opinion on the rebuild side is to convert them into picks in this draft, but any scenario that has either one bringing back a top 5 pick is a fairytale, let alone both of them yielding such a return. I could potentially see the Kings working a Lowry deal in exchange for the 6th overall choice, but only because Vivek is such a wildcard. And even that could see the Raptors give up another asset in the process or take back a negative asset in a bad salary.

I guess my question is where do you draw the line? Do you trade DeRozan for a top 7 pick and nothing lower? Top 10? A lottery pick? What about Lowry?

That is an excellent question and one has to keep in mind, historically if it is pick 7-10, then what percentage of those players have gone to become a DD caliber player ?

Excellent question.

[Fully]

For me, ideal DD is an elite prospect and a player who can either defend or shoot immediately. This goes back to my Charlotte proposal of Noah Vonleh (elite prospect) and Lance Stephenson (can defend, and has a team option, so only 1 year risk on a buy low player).

For KL, Stauskas and Thompson from Sac would be my min return. Obviously you push for the 6th pick, but I really don't trust Lowry to return (under Casey) and play well for the entire season. I really do expect his value to be lower next off-season if he isn't moved before then. Stauskas would provide shooting on a rookie deal (plus the nice publicity of adding a local kid) and Thompson can provide some rebounding as the back-up PF (PPatt likely starts in my plan with Amir likely gone unless he accepts team friendly deal).

Draft a PG at 20 (Delon Wright), and start the rebuild. If you get #6 - Justice Winslow (or if either top PG slips) would be top target.

A potential group of Wright, Stauskas, Winslow, Vonleh and JV to build around plus Bruno and the future picks.

You would trade Lowry for just Thompson and Stauskas?

Wow.

I know he was only a rookie but Stauskas was one of the worst players in the league last season.

[Axel]

You would trade Lowry for just Thompson and Stauskas?

Wow.

Based on how Lowry's history of production and issues with coaches, combined with Casey returning and the exit interviews comments made by both of them, I very much doubt that Casey and Lowry will have a productive relationship. When that happens, Lowry's play and attitude will negatively impact his value. This is what I expect would happen. That's not to say that his value is crap now, but I really believe it will be a lot worse this time next season unless significant changes are made. Casey is back and doesn't seem inclined to change, so that sets my bottom line lower.

I would start with asking price of Stauskas, 6th, Thompson and future 1st. My min accept is Stauskas and Thompson. End result is likely somewhere in the middle - perhaps 6th, perhaps the future 1st, perhaps 6th and some 2nds - who knows. Negotiations are a two way street and many posters on here simply post the asking price, not the negotiated price. Sorry for being honest.

[Axel]

I don't know how you can confuse what I have been saying or even pretend to confuse them.

Did anyone here say that we do not have to compete to win ?
Did anyone say that are goal should be ONLY to get pass the first round ?

The answer to both question is NO.

Are you familiar with a word called milestone ? To reach the NBA championship, there are various milestones that a team needs to get to before the NBA championship.

Here, I am and many people are interested in knowing how long it will take us to reach the first milestone, basically where we are at 2015 at this moment

Based on this simple question, in the other thread, we got time lines as optimistic as 1-2 years to 5-6 years.

Again, no one is saying that our goal should not be wining it all No one is saying that we need to be happy to just make the play offs.

I don't know what is so confusing about this

How can you claim that you were referring to milestones when your post very clearly says that building a champion is a different process that would need a different thread to discuss?

Now, if you want to talk about wining NBA championship,then we can open a thread and actually talk about it. That is a complete different process and a team can go through different path to get there and it does not have to be necessarily tanking.

[magoon]

What is everyone's threshold for returned value when it comes to trading DD and Lowry respectively?

I see the most popular opinion on the rebuild side is to convert them into picks in this draft, but any scenario that has either one bringing back a top 5 pick is a fairytale, let alone both of them yielding such a return. I could potentially see the Kings working a Lowry deal in exchange for the 6th overall choice, but only because Vivek is such a wildcard. And even that could see the Raptors give up another asset in the process or take back a negative asset in a bad salary.

I guess my question is where do you draw the line? Do you trade DeRozan for a top 7 pick and nothing lower? Top 10? A lottery pick? What about Lowry?

I think you're seriously underrating the possibility that the Knicks trade their pick.

The Knicks are perpetually in win-now mode, to be certain, but now more than ever they're in win-now mode precisely because Carmelo's window is rapidly closing. If they had gotten the opportunity to draft Towns or Okafor, I think they would choose to draft instead - but they likely will miss out on both, and every mock drafter talking about how Mudiay (since Philly seems deadlocked on Russell for their pick) will be a great pick for New York ignores the fact that Mudiay will be great for New York three or four years from now.

The Knicks never wanted to tank, remember. They wanted to win. They still do.

[McRealistic]

I think you're seriously underrating the possibility that the Knicks trade their pick.

The Knicks are perpetually in win-now mode, to be certain, but now more than ever they're in win-now mode precisely because Carmelo's window is rapidly closing. If they had gotten the opportunity to draft Towns or Okafor, I think they would choose to draft instead - but they likely will miss out on both, and every mock drafter talking about how Mudiay (since Philly seems deadlocked on Russell for their pick) will be a great pick for New York ignores the fact that Mudiay will be great for New York three or four years from now.

The Knicks never wanted to tank, remember. They wanted to win. They still do.

You have a very valid point but the question is what is the rest of the league is willing to give to knicks for that pick ?

[Fully]

Based on how Lowry's history of production and issues with coaches, combined with Casey returning and the exit interviews comments made by both of them, I very much doubt that Casey and Lowry will have a productive relationship. When that happens, Lowry's play and attitude will negatively impact his value. This is what I expect would happen. That's not to say that his value is crap now, but I really believe it will be a lot worse this time next season unless significant changes are made. Casey is back and doesn't seem inclined to change, so that sets my bottom line lower.

I would start with asking price of Stauskas, 6th, Thompson and future 1st. My min accept is Stauskas and Thompson. End result is likely somewhere in the middle - perhaps 6th, perhaps the future 1st, perhaps 6th and some 2nds - who knows. Negotiations are a two way street and many posters on here simply post the asking price, not the negotiated price. Sorry for being honest.

No need to apologize for your own opinion. I just see that as the worst case scenario - moving Lowry for Thompson/Stauskas would represent a big step backwards in the short term and lacks the long term upside that I'd be looking for in a trade for KL.

[Axel]

No need to apologize for your own opinion. I just see that as the worst case scenario - moving Lowry for Thompson/Stauskas would represent a big step backwards in the short term and lacks the long term upside that I'd be looking for in a trade for KL.

To me, the worst case scenario trade return is still better than the worst case scenario stays. It is a step back for sure, which is also why you move DD. it would mean our own 2016 pick is higher but "better to make a trade a year too early than a year too late" - that is the philosophy of NFL's Baltimore Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome. Held that position since '96 with 2 titles. How many GMs can complete with that?

[OldSkoolCool]

No need to apologize for your own opinion. I just see that as the worst case scenario - moving Lowry for Thompson/Stauskas would represent a big step backwards in the short term and lacks the long term upside that I'd be looking for in a trade for KL.

I think Stauskas has that covered

[Fully]

I think Stauskas has that covered

Based on what?