Why can't we like DeMar AND JV?

[The Great One]

omg.

Exactly my reaction when i read this:

"I like both, but I really hate fadeaway mid-range jumpers fyi"

I don't think you like both lol. Just be real.

[Mr.Z]

what the fuck is a stan?

Anyway the reason people seem to like either one or the other is really just a reflection of people's opinion/understanding of advanced metrics in basketball. People who "don't believe" in analytics don't think JV is that good because his raw numbers aren't spectacular, people who understand math and statistics see significant potential. By the same token people who look at the raw numbers see that Derozan scores 20 a game and don't look any further than that before anointing him some kind of star (somehow forgetting that mike fucking james scored 20/game for us), while people who look at more than PPG see the glaring problems of a shooting guard who just cannot shoot yet continues to do so.

I put "don't believe" in quotation marks because, like Axel said, these things aren't something you have to have faith in. It's just mathematics and statistics that are demonstrably better than raw numbers at predicting performance. I don't really understand the "anti-analytics" crowd, although i liken it to highschool where it was somehow "cool" to hate math.

I think my own opinions have been fairly clear on this forum regarding JV/Demar so I wont' say anything else.

JWash is a Stan, just for using it on this forum as an adjective. Clearly this guy loves Eminem lol

[rocwell]

Exactly my reaction when i read this:

"I like both, but I really hate fadeaway mid-range jumpers fyi"

I don't think you like both lol. Just be real.

Bruh. For real. Y'all acting like small bitches when someone says some shit about your boy. I hate fadeaway mid-range jumpers... just like 90% of basketball coaches. So what? Does it really make me a fucking hater? And if you really want to know, I have enormous respect for DeRozan. Of course there are some things I hate about him, but he's everything you need from growing basketball player for now. I'm no pro-jv or pro-dd. I'm buying in this Raptors shit every single season cuz I'm pro-raptors and I love this team w/ JV & DD or w/o 'em.

[Mr.Z]

They aren't our children so we don't have to love them unconditionally.

[Jangles]

Demar is just a player that fits poorly on our team. Seems like an okay guy. I dislike him as a player because he just isn't that good.

I like JV on and off the court. This organization hasn't exactly done him many favours since he came over. If in a few more years (with new coaches, systems, teammates) he fails to improve, I'm thinking I'll be hoping our GM trades him for a better fit on the team, just like what I'm doing with Demar.

[OldSkoolCool]

Demar is just a player that fits poorly on our team. Seems like an okay guy. I dislike him as a player because he just isn't that good.

I like JV on and off the court. This organization hasn't exactly done him many favours since he came over. If in a few more years (with new coaches, systems, teammates) he fails to improve, I'm thinking I'll be hoping our GM trades him for a better fit on the team, just like what I'm doing with Demar.

+1

[JWash]

Style of play and values on what is important in the game of basketball.


(Really good question though!)


*DD is 26 in August, JV just turned 23. DOB '89 vs '92

What was the point of trying to "correct" me with this? He's 25 right now like I said.

[JWash]

Demar is just a player that fits poorly on our team. Seems like an okay guy. I dislike him as a player because he just isn't that good.

I like JV on and off the court. This organization hasn't exactly done him many favours since he came over. If in a few more years (with new coaches, systems, teammates) he fails to improve, I'm thinking I'll be hoping our GM trades him for a better fit on the team, just like what I'm doing with Demar.

I'm sick of reading about "fit" when it comes to this team.

This team is currently not competing for anything other than being first round fodder. "Fit" does not matter. We need talent.

Not even saying that DeRozan needs to stay. But pointing to "fit" as the reason he needs to go makes little to no sense, when we don't even have core pieces in place (other than possibly JV).

[mcHAPPY]

What was the point of trying to "correct" me with this? He's 25 right now like I said.

Because they aren't 2 years apart in age as stated in the OP.

[DanH]

It's a by-law in the RR posting guidelines. Have to drive discussion somehow.

[JWash]

Because they aren't 2 years apart in age as stated in the OP.

Ok dude, congratulations. Really hope this place isn't going to be like RealGM with a bunch of "know-it-alls" pretending to be just that.

[Bonus Jonas]

JWash is a Stan, just for using it on this forum as an adjective. Clearly this guy loves Eminem lol

It's actually a pretty common saying. Idk must depend on your age I guess or maybe where you live but where I'm at its common-say to call superfans of anything stans.

Then again I live right across the border from detroit.

It's a by-law in the RR posting guidelines. Have to drive discussion somehow.

Lmfao

This forum has gotten really infested with blind supporters though. I could have sworn it wasn't that bad during the season, even through the rough stretches.

[blackjitsu]

I'm sick of reading about "fit" when it comes to this team.

This team is currently not competing for anything other than being first round fodder. "Fit" does not matter. We need talent.

Not even saying that DeRozan needs to stay. But pointing to "fit" as the reason he needs to go makes little to no sense, when we don't even have core pieces in place (other than possibly JV).

This needs to be stickied at the front of sooooo many threads. Seriously, who "fits" the Raptors? Does the team even have an ideology? Do the Raptors actually have more than 3 players (Lowry, DD, JV)? How can one decide who is the better fit, when the organization can not show us what direction they want to go?

I like both JV and DD. I wish they used both in ways that more correctly gave them opportunities to succeed. Demar is best coming off screens, or drive and kick sets. JV is most comfortable off pick and roll. CASEY allows the majority of plays to be isolation. Only 2 players on the Raps fit iso -- Lou and Lowry. So why is it being run so -- sorry about the tangent. I understand why they didn't fire Casey, but seriously, how can we truly judge players who are coached so poorly?

I think both are discredited for their defense. Demar seems to be the most consistent perimeter defender (which is sad), and JV is often blamed for mistakes that the perimeter defenders make. Anyway, I think you can like both and still recognize the flaws in their games. It doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

[Axel]

Ok dude, congratulations. Really hope this place isn't going to be like RealGM with a bunch of "know-it-alls" pretending to be just that.

While the age difference is irrelevant to the topic, since you included it don't see what is wrong with someone clarifying for accuracy. Next season DD is 26 and JV is 23. Demar's age in the offseason is pretty irrelevant.

Seems like you're making this into an issue when it shouldn't be.

[special1]

This needs to be stickied at the front of sooooo many threads. Seriously, who "fits" the Raptors? Does the team even have an ideology? Do the Raptors actually have more than 3 players (Lowry, DD, JV)? How can one decide who is the better fit, when the organization can not show us what direction they want to go?

I like both JV and DD. I wish they used both in ways that more correctly gave them opportunities to succeed. Demar is best coming off screens, or drive and kick sets. JV is most comfortable off pick and roll. CASEY allows the majority of plays to be isolation. Only 2 players on the Raps fit iso -- Lou and Lowry. So why is it being run so -- sorry about the tangent. I understand why they didn't fire Casey, but seriously, how can we truly judge players who are coached so poorly?

I think both are discredited for their defense. Demar seems to be the most consistent perimeter defender (which is sad), and JV is often blamed for mistakes that the perimeter defenders make. Anyway, I think you can like both and still recognize the flaws in their games. It doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

Good post.


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