Is Casey right? Is the day of the C over??

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I wonder though, how can you measure his offensive advantage against small ball when his offensive ability isn't being leveraged and the defensive scheme is designed to allow the ball handler into the lane?

I would argue that we don't have a proper benchmark off of which we can gauge this statement.

Jonas is routinely looked off when he has a strong post position with either a mismatch or poor defender. He is routinely looked off in lieu of contested jumpers when the opponent goes small.

The evidence kind of shows that Casey doesn't see the value in giving JV that opportunity/development.

It is my belief that if Mozgov can give the warriors troubles while they go small, JV (as the better offensive player) should be able to cause even more of an issue. He just needs the ball in his hands.

The bold is the key. One of the biggest complaints I have had for Raptors coaches for a long time, is that they are far too reactive when it comes to in-game strategy. Not only does JV rarely play against an opposition's small-ball lineup, but he never is utilized as an anti-small ball weapon. A potential strength can only benefit you when it's actually utilized, but that was unfortunately overlooked in the front-page article and by its many supporters.

How can you claim JV is unable to 'assert his will' or 'dictate the flow' against a small-ball defense, when he was never given an opportunity to try and do so? It also wouldn't hurt to give him at least one teammate who could give him a decent post-up entry pass, when he actually has deep position, but that's another issue for a different thread.

[golden]

Author of the article here. I think you're taking some things out of context.
My point with the piece was not to shit on Jonas. It's simply this: against smallball lineups, Jonas's offensive advantage is not greater than his defensive shortcomings. He's a bad matchup right now.

That's why he has to improve. But he's young and there's no reason why he wouldn't improve. He's already done wonders in improving his post game and rim protection.

What I'm not saying is that centers are irrelevant. That's a silly assertion, and I doubt that's what Casey meant to say.

William, generally I like your stuff, but your conclusion on Jonas in this case is wrong and mis-leading.

What you should be saying is the ".... with the combination of how Casey uses Jonas and how he currently impacts the game, he is not as effective as he could or should be against small ball lineups." Simply blaming the player without also holding the coach who puts the player in position to succeed or fail, is flawed analysis.

Otherwise, it really does come across as a shit on Jonas, and Jonas alone.

[JWash]

Really? Did history begin in 2014? Cause I would suggest that both the Miami Heat and the Big Three Celtics won without a centre playing a major role. You could also argue the 09-10 Lakers, though, mileage may vary on that. Then, obviously, Jordan won 6 titles in Chicago without a centre playing a "major role".

GSW is a great team and accomplished something great coming out of the West and winning. But they are a strange beast comprised of a lot of unique parts that will be hard to duplicate and drawing sweeping conclusions about the state of the league from their championship is foolish.

People also need to realize that had the Cavs been healthy, GS likely loses.

EDIT: To a team with a 7'0 traditional center no less...

Like I said small ball, tall ball, big balls, no balls, it doesn't matter. All that matters in the NBA when it comes to winning is how much talent you have, how you use it and luck. Period

[Superjudge]

Simply blaming the player without also holding the coach who puts the player in position to succeed or fail, is flawed analysis.

Otherwise, it really does come across as a shit on Jonas, and Jonas alone.

Why can't it be a shit on Jonas. I read stuff here lately, mostly the folks who never leave and have convinced themselves all that it is a forgone conclusion that Casey is an idiot.... that are simply wrong.

Yes, JV is accountable for his play. Its such a massive cop out when fans like to blame coaches for "not putting players in a position to succeed". He is on the floor, its on him to succeed, and if the other team tosses out 3 small guys, and he can't keep up, too bad. It aint on casey, and you arent gonna run a zone defence out there for 48 mins.

I'm not off JV yet, I have hope for the kid, but blaming his game, or lack thereof on the coaches is hilarious, they give this kid so much attention, and so much time on the floor it isn't funny. At some point, he has to figure it out. Gasol did.

[Superjudge]

Like I said small ball, tall ball, big balls, no balls, it doesn't matter. All that matters in the NBA when it comes to winning is how much talent you have, how you use it and luck. Period

While I disagree that GS loses with a full Cavs squad.... I can't argue with the second point you make. Its bang on.

[Primer]

Why can't it be a shit on Jonas. I read stuff here lately, mostly the folks who never leave and have convinced themselves all that it is a forgone conclusion that Casey is an idiot.... that are simply wrong.

Yes, JV is accountable for his play. Its such a massive cop out when fans like to blame coaches for "not putting players in a position to succeed". He is on the floor, its on him to succeed, and if the other team tosses out 3 small guys, and he can't keep up, too bad. It aint on casey, and you arent gonna run a zone defence out there for 48 mins.

I'm not off JV yet, I have hope for the kid, but blaming his game, or lack thereof on the coaches is hilarious, they give this kid so much attention, and so much time on the floor it isn't funny. At some point, he has to figure it out. Gasol did.

My hope would be to offset any defensive struggles by feeding JV on the inside and letting him score with ease over the smaller players. Instead we completely ignore JV and continue to jack up bad contested shots. To help him defensively, let him stand right around the restricted area and don't require him to run out to defend the 3-point line. Mozgov did just fine hanging around the restricted area denying the shit out of any small ball player who dared drive to the basket. Not once did I see Mozgov having to run out to contest a 3, something Casey asked JV to do on basically every defensive possession.

[golden]

Why can't it be a shit on Jonas. I read stuff here lately, mostly the folks who never leave and have convinced themselves all that it is a forgone conclusion that Casey is an idiot.... that are simply wrong.

Yes, JV is accountable for his play. Its such a massive cop out when fans like to blame coaches for "not putting players in a position to succeed". He is on the floor, its on him to succeed, and if the other team tosses out 3 small guys, and he can't keep up, too bad. It aint on casey, and you arent gonna run a zone defence out there for 48 mins.

I'm not off JV yet, I have hope for the kid, but blaming his game, or lack thereof on the coaches is hilarious, they give this kid so much attention, and so much time on the floor it isn't funny. At some point, he has to figure it out. Gasol did.

Because I said so. (channeling my inner Superjudge, lol).

I got no problem shitting on Jonas, or Lowry, or DD, or Ross or anybody else. But there's more than enough turd to be splattered around. The coaching staff shouldn't escape blame when coaching scheme/system is a contributing factor.

Gasol is a good example, actually. It takes two to tango when feeding the post and Gasol-Conley has evolved into a nice two-man / hi-lo feed-the-post game that's great to watch. JV can't feed it to himself, or make himself available on the perimeter to pass out to when the double-team comes. With the Raps you don't see outlets or cutters (like OKC, SAS) to keep the defence honest. That's all scheme related. And even if you want to say that Lowry sucks at feeding the post - what about Vasquez, who led the league in assists?

Casey clearly wants to minimize turnovers due to passing, because in his own words "...we don't have the personnel to pass". Just like our ISO perimeter guys, JV is supposed to create his own ISO offense starting from the mid-post against double teams, when everybody knows what's coming. That's all coaching, buddy, and completely reasonable to put some blame on the coaching staff for.

And the whole JV bulking up thing - who the heck was advising him on that? He came into the league as a high-motor Euro Tyson Chandler, according to Casey, and now he's a sloth? Is there no blame to be put on the coaching staff for player development? Totally agree that JV should be accountable for his play, but the coaching staff should also be accountable for the scheme. Are you saying that you think Casey's current offensive and defensive systems are the best options with this roster to put players in a position to succeed?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

My hope would be to offset any defensive struggles by feeding JV on the inside and letting him score with ease over the smaller players. Instead we completely ignore JV and continue to jack up bad contested shots. To help him defensively, let him stand right around the restricted area and don't require him to run out to defend the 3-point line. Mozgov did just fine hanging around the restricted area denying the shit out of any small ball player who dared drive to the basket. Not once did I see Mozgov having to run out to contest a 3, something Casey asked JV to do on basically every defensive possession.

2 thoughts to add to your post...

1. Just think how effective the Raptors (and JV) would be if they had a PF playing alongside him who provided another interior threat, while being athletic enough to keep up with the smaller forwards he's forced to defend?

2. Not only is DC's ISO game detrimental to JV's overall impact because it fails to actually utilize him effectively in favorable matchups (ie: against small-ball lineups), but jacking up ISO long 2's also leads to a lot of transition run-out opportunities for the opponent, which only helps to magnify the obvious weakness of a traditional big who established low-post position.

The system doesn't enable JV (or any traditional big - C/PF) to be successful. It's not an excuse for JV, since he has lots of areas to improve in (and the potential to do so), it's just a statement of fact. Either the roster or the system needs a major overhaul - personally, I'd rather just dump the coach and the system.

[ceez]

wait, did he actually say they don't have the personnel to pass?

[Axel]

wait, did he actually say they don't have the personnel to pass?

Sadly, yes.

[ceez]

Sadly, yes.

[Dwane Casey]

wait, did he actually say they don't have the personnel to pass?

You got a problem with that, punk?

[Demographic Shift]

Heres a Grantland Piece that says the Reports of the Death of Big Boy BasketBall in the Low Post may be a touch premature.
After all .. if its dead.. why are Towns and Okafor likely to go 1 -2 this year ?

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we...u-its-rebirth/

[S.R.]

Heres a Grantland Piece that says the Reports of the Death of Big Boy BasketBall in the Low Post may be a touch premature.
After all .. if its dead.. why are Towns and Okafor likely to go 1 -2 this year ?

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we...u-its-rebirth/

I like the bit about playmaking 4's replacing stretch 4's. Draymond Green and Boris Diaw are great examples, but so was Josh Smith this year. Houston had some interesting plays for him that turned him into a back to the basket playmaker, often after a switch.

That article isn't about the death of anything so much as it's about the evolution of the game. The way the post is used will evolve in response to current trends. Coaches find effective systems and eventually other coaches find effective counters to those systems.

[2KJ]

The day of the C isn't over. Sure, GSW mostly played small but they were also smart enough to use their scoring bigs in order to open up the space in the perimeter so their shooters can shoot. In the games that they lost, the Splash Bros became the Brick Bros.

You can even say that GSW was lucky they didn't have a much harder matchup in the West. They were able to avoid OKC in round 1, and the Spurs/Clippers. Those are the 3 teams that can give GSW a handful, other than a healthy Cavs team. Even Steve Kerr admitted it that luck was on their side and his players took advantage. And that's alright, it's part of the game - they are rightfully the champs, no asterisks whatsoever.

The day of the C is not over, as a solid big is still needed to win - GSW had Bogut and Lee (not all stars, anymore at least but can contribute to a team), Cavs had Mozgov who was the 2nd best Cav in the finals after Lebron (Delly struggled after the first 3 games). I'm just hoping Casey was kept to be that tank commander he was supposed to be. If that's what he believe, why the frig did they have JV bulk up? He was pretty athletic and much quicker in his first 2 seasons when he was leaner.