Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

[Apollo]

I'm not blaming Casey, or claiming Ross is great. All those contracts you cited were signed under the current cap, not under the new cap, which changes things a LOT.

Waiters might very well get $20m, I wouldn't be shocked.

And Ross isn't great for our system, we're bad at generating assisted catch and shoot baskets, he's good at shooting those.

I'd be totally shocked if Waiters gets $20M. Who's is paying him $20M/yr? Give us a list of teams or something to justify it. I just don't see it. Any team that pays attention to advanced stats might not want to pay him anything, let alone $20M/yr.

[Barolt]

I'd be totally shocked if Waiters gets $20M. Who's is paying him $20M/yr? Give us a list of teams or something to justify it. I just don't see it. Any team that pays attention to advanced stats might not want to pay him anything, let alone $20M/yr.

What does the wing market look like this summer among actual, likely free agents?

Durant, DeRozan, Beal(RFA), Fournier(RFA), Batum, H. Barnes. Then you have, who?

Bazemore? Deng? Evan Turner? Matt Barnes? Courtney Lee? OJ Mayo? Eric Gordon?

The talent pool this summer among wings is REALLY, REALLY weak.

[Apollo]

Random question: Why is Deyonta Davis a projected lottery pick, while Cheick Diallo is currently trying to prove he belongs in the first round at all? Scouting reports feel incredibly similar between the two: same positional flexibility (PF/C), both with great tools but very raw, needing to refine footwork, shot mechanics aren't great (although Davis' have been better), high block percentages, able to hedge out on guards due to agility/quickness, great athletes with quick first and second jumps, and good rebounders on a per/40 basis.

Deyonta is taller (although Diallo is slightly longer) and heavier, played more minutes (18 per game, compared to 7.5 per game for Diallo), and is three months younger (not enough to make a huge difference in my opinion). But Diallo is known for high energy/effort whenever he is on the court, while Draft Express writes that Davis is "prone to losing his focus...not always playing with the type of intensity and toughness you might hope."

I'm not a draft expert, but what am I missing in these two?

No guarantee that Diallo is available at 27, but as he is commonly slated to be available late first, let's assume that he is for the sake of this discussion. More value selection: Deyonta at 9 or Diallo at 27?

A couple tangible reasons right out of the gate are that Davis has an NBA body already at 19 years old. He has 25lbs and three inches on Diallo. In their short collegiate careers Davis also performed a lot better and was more efficient. He's also better equipped at 19 than Diallo in terms of skills.

I don't know how much you knock a guy at 19 for inconsistency. Freshman year is hard enough when you're just talking studying, let alone playing on a demanding team and contending with all the distractions that college life can bring.

Another thing going against Diallo is he unfortunately never received the same opportunities. I mean if he were seven foot and had the same scenario maybe he's up there around Bender. He isn't seven though...

[Apollo]

What does the wing market look like this summer among actual, likely free agents?

Durant, DeRozan, Beal(RFA), Fournier(RFA), Batum, H. Barnes. Then you have, who?

Bazemore? Deng? Evan Turner? Matt Barnes? Courtney Lee? OJ Mayo? Eric Gordon?

The talent pool this summer among wings is REALLY, REALLY weak.

There are a good bunch in the draft I'd rather have than him. Most of those names you listed I'd rather have than him. It takes two to tango, who are these two teams that want mediocre Waiters enough to drive his price up to $20M/yr? There has to be two because no one is going to arbitrarily offer up $20M/yr. I'd say cut that in half as a starting point.

[octothorp]

Random question: Why is Deyonta Davis a projected lottery pick, while Cheick Diallo is currently trying to prove he belongs in the first round at all? Scouting reports feel incredibly similar between the two: same positional flexibility (PF/C), both with great tools but very raw, needing to refine footwork, shot mechanics aren't great (although Davis' have been better), high block percentages, able to hedge out on guards due to agility/quickness, great athletes with quick first and second jumps, and good rebounders on a per/40 basis.

Deyonta is taller (although Diallo is slightly longer) and heavier, played more minutes (18 per game, compared to 7.5 per game for Diallo), and is three months younger (not enough to make a huge difference in my opinion). But Diallo is known for high energy/effort whenever he is on the court, while Draft Express writes that Davis is "prone to losing his focus...not always playing with the type of intensity and toughness you might hope."

I'm not a draft expert, but what am I missing in these two?

No guarantee that Diallo is available at 27, but as he is commonly slated to be available late first, let's assume that he is for the sake of this discussion. More value selection: Deyonta at 9 or Diallo at 27?

This is a valid question and I think you could make the case that Diallo is very underrated right now. It also has a lot to do with expectations: Diallo came in as a lottery prospect, and ended up barely being part of Kansas's rotation. Davis came in with scouts thinking he was still a few years away and would have a long road before getting noticed, and instead ended up carving out a role for himself. Essentially it's the difference between "can't find a way to stay on the floor" and "makes himself indispensable to his team." I think that makes scouts fear Diallo's floor, and get excited about Davis's ceiling.

[Barolt]

There are a good bunch in the draft I'd rather have than him. Most of those names you listed I'd rather have than him. It takes two to tango, who are these two teams that want mediocre Waiters enough to drive his price up to $20M/yr? There has to be two because no one is going to arbitrarily offer up $20M/yr. I'd say cut that in half as a starting point.

Let's say Durant, DeMar, Beal, Fournier and Barnes all stay where they are. Now you've got ~10-15 teams that wanted a wing this summer, with a lot of cap space. Including the Knicks, Nets and Lakers.

[Bonus Jonas]

Sorry mods for continuing this convo in this thread

Let's say Durant, DeMar, Beal, Fournier and Barnes all stay where they are. Now you've got ~10-15 teams that wanted a wing this summer, with a lot of cap space. Including the Knicks, Nets and Lakers.

I'll bet you literally anything you want that Waiters doesn't even get 18M this season.

Sig/display pic for however long you'd like

[Bendit]

I think masai will trade the pick/picks and ross for a PF.

I dont particularly like trading a lottery pick but given where this team is I might do it if Davis was gone. But more importantly who did you have in mind coming back ? Ibaka, Griffin, ? ? ?

[Barolt]

Sorry mods for continuing this convo in this thread



I'll bet you literally anything you want that Waiters doesn't even get 18M this season.

Sig/display pic for however long you'd like

I'm debating this. Because I think the lowest Waiters gets is 15m, but I'm not sure he goes as high as he could.

[Bonus Jonas]

I'm debating this. Because I think the lowest Waiters gets is 15m, but I'm not sure he goes as high as he could.

17 final offer

[Billy103]

I dont particularly like trading a lottery pick but given where this team is I might do it if Davis was gone. But more importantly who did you have in mind coming back ? Ibaka, Griffin, ? ? ?

I don't know tbh. Masai is very unpredictable my guess is he will trade for someone who is flying under the radar or on a rookie deal.

[Billy103]

17 final offer

What if waiters gets maxed out by BC in philly ahahah

[Apollo]

Let's say Durant, DeMar, Beal, Fournier and Barnes all stay where they are. Now you've got ~10-15 teams that wanted a wing this summer, with a lot of cap space. Including the Knicks, Nets and Lakers.

There are a bunch of good wings in the draft. Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Brown, Hield and Valentine are all arguably going in the top ten. That's six right there who will come a lot cheaper than $20M/yr.

[Barolt]

There are a bunch of good wings in the draft. Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Brown, Hield and Valentine are all arguably going in the top ten. That's six right there who will come a lot cheaper than $20M/yr.

And neither the Knicks or Nets have any shot at any of those guys.

[Apollo]

And neither the Knicks or Nets have any shot at any of those guys.

Right now at this moment, no but that can change. Again, who is bidding Waiters up to that ridiculous price? Better options are sitting on team's benches that they could trade for;especially after the draft. You guys are making it out like FA is the desert and Dion Waiters is the only glass of water as far as the eye can see.