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Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    Bargnani has tainted no one. There have been many euro big men who went in the lottery before him who totally busted. Bargnani had a far better career than those guys. Colangelo drafted one of them that I'm talking about.

    My question to you is how do you know that what you're saying is true given the extremely small sample size? Bargnani had similar things said about him before being drafted and was playing more than this guy. This guy is as likely to get some poor GM fired than to be a home run pick. What the Knicks did last year is a totally different situation. Bender is a high risk pick in my books anyway.
    Granted, I can't remember in detail Bargs projections but, just statistically speaking (especially given he was playing in a harder league then the NCAA), Bender has and does look to be less risky pick and does seem to project better this draft than anyone not named Simmons and Ingram. Of course, he could not work out but that also applies to everyone else being picked in the draft. I don't think he's a high risk pick personally but can see how that could be seen.
    "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
    "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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    • Just Is wrote: View Post
      Of course, he could not work out but that also applies to everyone else being picked in the draft. I don't think he's a high risk pick personally but can see how that could be seen.
      That applies to anyone who's ever been drafted, yes but on a scale from 1 to 10 he's higher up the charts than a group of guys projected to be taken immediately after him.

      So what I'm merely saying is he wreaks of a boom or bust kind of pick. Picks like this really high in the draft are very difficult to recover from when they don't work out.

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      • Apollo wrote: View Post
        My concern is that with the small sample size he's just as likely to be Bargnani 2.0.
        Legitimate concern for you or I. I've never even seen him play.

        Not so much for NBA teams though. From DX

        Nevertheless, Bender has been scouted thoroughly by NBA talent evaluators at every level players his age typically compete, having participated in the Jordan Brand Classic in New York, the NBA Basketball Without Borders Global Camp in New York, two adidas EuroCamps, three FIBA junior championships, three Euroleague International Junior Tournaments, as well as seeing over 500 minutes in a Maccabi Tel Avi uniform at the senior level this season.

        Representatives of all 30 NBA teams have been present to watch him play and practice this season according to Maccabi Tel Aviv, including the Euroleague preseason games they played against Armani Milan in Chicago and New York last October.
        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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        • They have a small sample size to go on as well. He's played limited minutes.

          Guys get drafted on upside every year. Those teams like those players as well and some bust. That just means they were wrong. These teams could be wrong here. I mean they don't have a lot to go on.

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          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            I hope the 27th pick is a Euro stash or is traded for a future pick. I'd prefer to be cap neutral with that pick so that we have more money to keep BB or to sign a starting caliber PF in case DD leaves. Every penny will matter.

            Looking at draftexpress.. I can see a guy like Petr Cornelie being selected. Stretch 4 with a 7'1 wing span. I wouldn't mind having a stretch 4 stashed in Europe.
            This is now I feel. Cornelie or Hernangomez or Cordinier are all options at 27.

            Cordinier is a 6'5 SG with good athleticism, off ball game and shooting. Needs time overseas, which frees up a roster spot while maintaining an asset.

            Big pass on Diallo especially of the college ranks. Just don't see much value in another late prospect taking up a roster spot and playing in Mississauga and can't see a Daniels like path overseas now that the 905s are in play.


            I'm still torn between Davis and Skal at 9th for my preference. Chriss is the fall back option to me with Valentine in play if we move a wing.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • If Davis has good work ethic I don't see any reason not to take him (especially with Biz probably leaving). All his weaknesses will improve over time with more reps and practice in the gym.

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              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                They have a small sample size to go on as well. He's played limited minutes.

                Guys get drafted on upside every year. Those teams like those players as well and some bust. That just means they were wrong. These teams could be wrong here. I mean they don't have a lot to go on.
                Darko Miličić comes to mind and also Bargnani.

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                • Kuh wrote: View Post
                  Here's the latest from Nylon Calculus on the draft. They focus on who Boston should take, and in doing so they break the draft down into three tiers, which may interest us.

                  Tier 1: Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram
                  Tier 2: Dragan Bender, Deytona Davis, Jakob Poetl, Diamond Stone
                  Tier 3: Kris Dunn, Henry Ellenson, Domantis Sabonis, Denzel Valentine and possibly others not listed

                  http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/05/23/...016-nba-draft/
                  Jeez that's a terrible break down in my opinion.

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                  • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                    Jeez that's a terrible break down in my opinion.
                    To me it appears weighted toward their particular needs.

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post
                      To me it appears weighted toward their particular needs.
                      True. Didn't look at it that way.

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                      • Hotshot wrote: View Post
                        Darko Miličić comes to mind and also Bargnani.
                        The worst may have been Nikoloz Tskitishvili. Kiki Vandeweghe was the GM who drafted him 5th overall without ever having seen him play live.
                        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                        • Bender probably gets some good will due to Porzingis' great rookie year.

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                          • They're not very similar though.

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                            • Kuh wrote: View Post
                              Here's the latest from Nylon Calculus on the draft. They focus on who Boston should take, and in doing so they break the draft down into three tiers, which may interest us.

                              Tier 1: Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram
                              Tier 2: Dragan Bender, Deytona Davis, Jakob Poetl, Diamond Stone
                              Tier 3: Kris Dunn, Henry Ellenson, Domantis Sabonis, Denzel Valentine and possibly others not listed

                              http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/05/23/...016-nba-draft/
                              murray not in tier 2. please please please please please please.


                              27 pick i am really leaning towards zhou now. we immediately become the biggest market team in the league/world. represent two countries. instantly. kid doesn't even need to play and it immediately offsets any future luxury costs.

                              this is the proper team move in my opinion.

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                              • Bender is highly regarded and has been for a good while. There's a reason he's been at the top of the charts all year despite barely playing. I know I'd love to have him - a point-4 with the size and athleticism to play either bigman position in the modern NBA, a wealthy-man's Boris Diaw?

                                Yeah, I'd take that.

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