Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

[Mess]

DD (allegedly) asks for $25M, Wesley Matthews asks for $15M, I'd be surprised if either get what they initially and ideally want. Masai knows that's how you negotiate, you usually don't start out by lowballing yourself.

[BreakingBradStevens]

Jake Poetl from Utah looks solid, too.

[BreakingBradStevens]

I love the idea of a lotto pick but let's remember that it is still a FIRST ROUND PICK for Bargnani. Anyone we get makes the deal that much better.

[ezz_bee]

They crappier NY is, the less incentive for our pick to be in the lottery. The right to swap picks is currently the only way to get someone else's top 3 pick, as every draft pick trade seems to be at least top 3 protected. I wonder how long it'll be until we see protected swaps (teams have the right to swap picks as long as it doesn't fall in the top...) or if that is even something teams can agree on.

I've been talking about this on and off for a couple years now, but targeting partners, and specific years where you expect them to be bad, and they over value where they expect to be is the key to get top draft talent without having to tank for it.

If I was GM I'd had a specific task to identify in which years you expect every team to rebuild, then target those years specifically during trade negotiations. Picks are not like money so there's not really an opportunity cost in delaying the receipt of them for couple of years, or longer.

About this three-way specifically, I think it's unlikely we get a top 5, but I'd say it's at least fifty-fifty that it's a lotto pick. The Knicks don't need much to go wrong to see themselves outside the playoffs. However, I wouldn't spend a lot of my time thinking about a top 5 pick, yes it's possible, but NOT probable.

Tangentially, in order to increase my odds, I'd try to engage Denver in a trade, wherein we get the right to swap picks with the Nuggets in this year's draft, essentially flipping the draft order from Den-Tor-NY to Tor-Den-NY, however, I'm not sure you could trick Denver into making that deal.

[Axel]

Don't forget, the Knicks won 37 games 2 years ago with a rotation of:

Felton (65 GP/GS)
Shumpert (74 GP/58 GS)
Melo (77 GP/GS)
Bargs/Amare (42/39, 65/21)
Chandler (55 GP)
JR Smith (74/37)
Hardaway (81/1)
Prigioni (66/27)


Adding West and/or Monroe makes that team better since Chandler was out half the season.

[CA$H MONEY]

I don't think they want to bring Harris in, he plays the same position as Melo and that's too much money tied up at SF. Monroe & West are realistic to be on the Knicks and they are both players that legitimately would be perfect in a triangle offence...I know they are targeting Wes Matthews as well and with his injury and the Knicks history of overpaying, wouldn't be surprised if they nab him too. I know Phil has said he wants to bring Smith, Bargs & Shved back as well and they have some young guys in Grant, Early, Thannis that could contribute. assuming thats what happens in their off season- Jose, Wes, Melo, Monroe & West should make them a much better team from last season but they'll still be bad.

Rumours outta Den is basically everyone with any trade value is on the block (Lawson, Faried, Gallinari, Chandler, Hickson, Nelson) so they could & should go full tank mode and I think will be worse than the Knicks playing in the West. Either way that NY pick is top 5-10.

and the wayy too early prediction for Raptors 2016 is allll Kentucky blue

Knick/Den *#5- Skal Labissiere PF/C
Raps *#20- Jamal Murray SG
2nd round- Alex Poythress SF

I like skal labissiere but diallo is a better prospect and a much much harder worker

[raptors999]

Don't forget, the Knicks won 37 games 2 years ago with a rotation of:

Felton (65 GP/GS)
Shumpert (74 GP/58 GS)
Melo (77 GP/GS)
Bargs/Amare (42/39, 65/21)
Chandler (55 GP)
JR Smith (74/37)
Hardaway (81/1)
Prigioni (66/27)


Adding West and/or Monroe makes that team better since Chandler was out half the season.

Add West and Monroe but also remove everyone else except Melo

[DanH]

I think the East is a bit better now than when that team won 37. And Melo ain't getting younger. That said, I could se a mid-thirties result for them. But that seems like a best case - squeaking into the playoffs in the East. And that means a 15th-ish pick, which would be great. And there's just as much chance they implode like last year's squad.

[Axel]

I think the East is a bit better now than when that team won 37. And Melo ain't getting younger. That said, I could se a mid-thirties result for them. But that seems like a best case - squeaking into the playoffs in the East. And that means a 15th-ish pick, which would be great. And there's just as much chance they implode like last year's squad.

I think Greg Monroe is a pretty damn good player for them to add. WS of 6.8 last year on Detroit. He will make NY better.

I agree that the pick will be in the teens (think I stated 12-17 range earlier in the thread) but some folks are talking about top 5 like it's in the bag.

[BobLoblaw]

The Knicks also won 54 just a couple years ago, when Melo had a healthy-ish Tyson Chandler and a pair of somewhat competent guards (Felton / Kidd). You just never know with Melo. If he's healthy, if Phil gets a few competent players who complement him well, they could easily make the playoffs. If Melo isn't healthy or the offseason is a bust, they might be bad again. We'll have to wait and see.

[raptors999]

The Knicks also won 54 just a couple years ago, when Melo had a healthy-ish Tyson Chandler and a pair of somewhat competent guards (Felton / Kidd). You just never know with Melo. If he's healthy, if Phil gets a few competent players who complement him well, they could easily make the playoffs. If Melo isn't healthy or the offseason is a bust, they might be bad again. We'll have to wait and see.

Knicks won 54 because they were hitting an absurd amount of game winning buzzer beaters.

[BobLoblaw]

Knicks won 54 because they were hitting an absurd amount of game winning buzzer beaters.

They were 7-5 in games won by 3 or less, not that special.

[JWash]

Knicks won 54 because they were hitting an absurd amount of game winning buzzer beaters.

You gotta be in the game to begin with to make such shots...

[ceez]

haven't really read the thread but i think Denver are going to be meh this year IF they go ahead and trade away the danilo's and lawson's and faried's on the team. if they don't... the team could be decent? mike malone's a great coach and i expect he'd be able to get more out of this team.

i'm not saying they'll make the playoffs or anything but i wouldn't bet on the nugs pick to be top 5 or anything

regarding the knicks, they're going to be better. if Melo's locked in he's one of the best pure scorer's in the league and they're finally getting some decent talent in there. don't think zinger's going to have an immediate impact, or even Grant. like, they were 9th in the east a year ago. it's not implausible they make that or even sneak into the playoffs if they had a couple solid FA's. it is the east after all.

all that said i wouldn't trade the pick for near anything

[JWash]

I think the East is a bit better now than when that team won 37. And Melo ain't getting younger. That said, I could se a mid-thirties result for them. But that seems like a best case - squeaking into the playoffs in the East. And that means a 15th-ish pick, which would be great. And there's just as much chance they implode like last year's squad.

Most likely, winning in the mid-30s would get you the 10th or 11th seed in the east. That's about where it was this year, and the east actually projects to be stronger next season with Indiana and Miami likely being players again (and only Brooklyn probably taking a significant step back). In the west there's only usually about 4 teams that win that few games, so you'd probably have the 10th pick or so.