Everything DeMarre Carroll

[golden]

When the Derrick Rose injury controversies were going on, Reggie Miller offered the player's perspective. He said, there's a difference between playing "hurt" and playing "injured". Playing "hurt" is when you're playing through pain, but you can't do further damage to the injury by playing. Playing "injured" also playing through pain, but also risking further damage - this is reckless and could be career threatening.

From the sounds of the Caroll-McKechnie quote, it implies that both guys knew that Carroll was "injured" (by Miller's definition) , so whomever made the collective call for Carroll to continue playing screwed that up badly. I'd say it's mostly on Carroll, but with a 99.99% certainty that the coaching staff and Masai also had that same information from McKechnie. If not, then it's all on McKechnie hiding that info, which would seem kind of bizarre for the coaching staff not to know. And the Dudley-Rivers situation would indicate similar bad judgment by Rivers and the Clips, which is basically the point Dudley is trying to make.

[Axel]

All in all, the fact that Carroll made those comments is rather unusual.

[golden]

All in all, the fact that Carroll made those comments is rather unusual.

That's the other thing about Carroll I didn't like - all this stuff should have been kept in-house. For a guy that's supposed to have a reputation for toughness (i.e. self-proclaimed JYD 2.0), Carroll was talking a shit ton about his injury openly to the media. If you're tough, you don't go around drawing attention to the fact that you're playing through pain.

Completely the opposite of Lowry, who never said boo about his injuries last season, even after the playoff debacle when it was clear he wasn't himself.

[Nilanka]

That's the other thing about Carroll I didn't like - all this stuff should have been kept in-house. For a guy that's supposed to have a reputation for toughness (i.e. self-proclaimed JYD 2.0), Carroll was talking a shit ton about his injury openly to the media. If you're tough, you don't go around drawing attention to the fact that you're playing through pain.

Completely the opposite of Lowry, who never said boo about his injuries last season, even after the playoff debacle when it was clear he wasn't himself.

I don't think that's fair. You can be a "tough" player on the court, but can also be so frustrated with your injury, that you slip up some details to the media. Everyone has their breaking point.

[Axel]

I don't think that's fair. You can be a "tough" player on the court, but can also be so frustrated with your injury, that you slip up some details to the media. Everyone has their breaking point.

Unless of course the frustration is more about the handling of the injury than the actual injury itself. Still seems odd comments from a player.

[DanH]

That's the other thing about Carroll I didn't like - all this stuff should have been kept in-house. For a guy that's supposed to have a reputation for toughness (i.e. self-proclaimed JYD 2.0), Carroll was talking a shit ton about his injury openly to the media. If you're tough, you don't go around drawing attention to the fact that you're playing through pain.

Completely the opposite of Lowry, who never said boo about his injuries last season, even after the playoff debacle when it was clear he wasn't himself.

This, of course, leads into the reason this is so concerning. This is the same thing as last season. Nothing was said then, but still there is Lowry out there every night, with more and more rumours of him being not right, and it being more and more apparent on the court. Should be sitting, should be sitting, should be sitting. But no, he plays through injuries for most of the second half of the year, completely ruins himself by the time March rolls around, and when he is finally sat down (and brought back, and sat down...) it is too late for a full recovery and anything near a return to game shape for the playoffs.

You can see why some would be concerned about this story repeating itself, even partially, again this year with Carroll.

[Axel]

I moved the convo to here, since it may be a much more long term topic than Raps-Wiz

Here is the quote from Carroll:
It’s one of those things where I could play, but me playing at 65 per cent is not…I don’t think everybody looks at it as beneficial. (That) kind of makes me sound selfish, but I’m not. It’s just that Alex (McKechnie), he wanted to hold me out. He said he felt like I’m putting myself at risk more out there playing and the way I play. We’re going to go through a couple of procedures and see. I’ll see what the next step is.

I’m frustrated right now…What can I do? I don’t want to say too much, because you know how the Raptors do, we keep our stuff hush. I don’t want to say too much, but at the same time man, only if you knew, you know what I mean? Only if you knew. It’s one of those things."

No matter what way you slice it, the comments are unusual. Very cryptic and telling at the same time. Don't recall seeing another quite like it.

[Snooch]

I moved the convo to here, since it may be a much more long term topic than Raps-Wiz

Here is the quote from Carroll:
It’s one of those things where I could play, but me playing at 65 per cent is not…I don’t think everybody looks at it as beneficial. (That) kind of makes me sound selfish, but I’m not. It’s just that Alex (McKechnie), he wanted to hold me out. He said he felt like I’m putting myself at risk more out there playing and the way I play. We’re going to go through a couple of procedures and see. I’ll see what the next step is.

I’m frustrated right now…What can I do? I don’t want to say too much, because you know how the Raptors do, we keep our stuff hush. I don’t want to say too much, but at the same time man, only if you knew, you know what I mean? Only if you knew. It’s one of those things."

No matter what way you slice it, the comments are unusual. Very cryptic and telling at the same time. Don't recall seeing another quite like it.

yeahm there is definately something messed up there.

I cannot help but feel as though it was indeed Casey forcing him to play.

Contrat year Casey:

Caseys contract is coming due soon, and you know he wants, nay needs, to win as many games as possible throughout the year. And he knows that, after 2 straight playoff defeats, that his style of play is more conducive to regular season than playoffs. So the answer is to ride players as hard as you can in regular season, go for 50 wins and a new team record, then if guys are broken and run down for playoffs that is his excuse. "You see Massai, we won 50 games in the regular season, I got the team to consistantly perform better than the previous year, not my fault they dont take care of themselves to sustain for 82 games plus playoffs."

Also you know that Casey is going to go with his boy demar come hell or high water, and he needs a guy like Carroll to be out there taking the bumps and bruises for him.

[Nilanka]

Unless of course the frustration is more about the handling of the injury than the actual injury itself. Still seems odd comments from a player.

Odd yes, but doesn't necessarily speak to his "toughness" as a player. Two separate issues, IMO.

[Axel]

Odd yes, but doesn't necessarily speak to his "toughness" as a player. Two separate issues, IMO.

Yeah, I agree with that.

[3inthekeon]

I cannot help but feel as though it was indeed Casey forcing him to play.
.

Casey can't force him to play.

And although Casey does seem the most likely "suspect", some of his his team mates may also have asked him to tough it out.

[golden]

I moved the convo to here, since it may be a much more long term topic than Raps-Wiz

Here is the quote from Carroll:
It’s one of those things where I could play, but me playing at 65 per cent is not…I don’t think everybody looks at it as beneficial. (That) kind of makes me sound selfish, but I’m not. It’s just that Alex (McKechnie), he wanted to hold me out. He said he felt like I’m putting myself at risk more out there playing and the way I play. We’re going to go through a couple of procedures and see. I’ll see what the next step is.

I’m frustrated right now…What can I do? I don’t want to say too much, because you know how the Raptors do, we keep our stuff hush. I don’t want to say too much, but at the same time man, only if you knew, you know what I mean? Only if you knew. It’s one of those things."

No matter what way you slice it, the comments are unusual. Very cryptic and telling at the same time. Don't recall seeing another quite like it.

At least to me, it seems obvious why Carroll is saying what he's saying. He was a journeyman who just got gifted $60M US (real money) and he's feeling guilty about the perception of not earning it in front of a new fan-base who he hasn't proved anything to yet. Just my theory.

It's a whole different ball-game in the eyes of fans and media when you go from being the underdog over-achiever to being the overpaid under-performer.

[tDotted]

Whether he was forced to play or not, he was still being asked to play 30+ minutes a night.. which is too much for someone of his age & injury history.

[golden]

I don't think that's fair. You can be a "tough" player on the court, but can also be so frustrated with your injury, that you slip up some details to the media. Everyone has their breaking point.

It seemed a lot more than 'slipping up' some details. Way too much information, without much prompting, IMO.

[S.R.]

I moved the convo to here, since it may be a much more long term topic than Raps-Wiz

Here is the quote from Carroll:
It’s one of those things where I could play, but me playing at 65 per cent is not…I don’t think everybody looks at it as beneficial. (That) kind of makes me sound selfish, but I’m not. It’s just that Alex (McKechnie), he wanted to hold me out. He said he felt like I’m putting myself at risk more out there playing and the way I play. We’re going to go through a couple of procedures and see. I’ll see what the next step is.

I’m frustrated right now…What can I do? I don’t want to say too much, because you know how the Raptors do, we keep our stuff hush. I don’t want to say too much, but at the same time man, only if you knew, you know what I mean? Only if you knew. It’s one of those things."

No matter what way you slice it, the comments are unusual. Very cryptic and telling at the same time. Don't recall seeing another quite like it.

He could have meant a few different things, but when I heard that live I thought he was talking about playing hurt and how tough it was but it wasn't the team's way or his way to complain about that, so he was trying not to - but he felt like he finally had to say something to the media because it was pretty apparent he wasn't performing up to expectations. I didn't take it as a veiled reference to some behind-the-scenes drama, but it could have been. I'd still lean towards my initial take on it. I think he was just saying it was a complicated and difficult situation and "if only you knew" would be directed at the people criticizing his play. "If only you knew" how hurt he was and how tough it was - he was hurt enough that even the trainer wanted him to sit out, but he was still playing.

I do agree that between him this year and Lowry last year, someone in the organization needs to take a harder line with players who want to play through pain and make them sit to get healthy. If the previous m.o. was to basically let the player decide for himself, that needs to change for the good of the team.