Are we treadmilling?

[Chr1s1anL]

How do you know this with JV? We can say this about DeMar/Lowry, but absolutely cannot say this about JV. Have to let him be more than the #4 option(where he was ridiculously efficient) before we decide he can't be a number 1 option.

As good as JV is he is not a superstar. We don't win this series JV is playing. We maybe squeeze a game if JV is playing

[Scraptor]

I don't think you can ever call a team treadmilling that won 56 games and has most of their core yet to reach their prime.

Who would you define as our core? Kyle and DeMar have definitely reached their prime. JV is the only other true core player and he definitely has some upside, but who knows if he can unlock that in this system with these teammates.

I like Norman Powell but it's hard to consider him a core player when he's averaging 5 minutes a game over the last 8 playoff games.

That said, Masai does have some pieces to work with. But if we spend this summer getting another DeMarre Carroll-type expensive role player, it is fair to be skeptical about our ceiling.

[Barolt]

As good as JV is he is not a superstar. We don't win this series JV is playing. We maybe squeeze a game if JV is playing

Again, you're completely ignoring the historical context of JV's production if you think you can definitively say this. He's doing things only superstars have done before, and he's never had superstar usage.

[Chr1s1anL]

sorry but, if jordans dad doesn't die. the dream has 0 rings and michael has 8.

for the bolded. i have never said we shouldn't do what we can to improve. i have also made many suggestions on ways that the offense could be run bettter. i have also said, repeatedly, that i can see us trading demar. i disagree with "blow it up" and i disagree with the idea that we get better by letting demar walk in the summer for nothing. if the idea is long term growth, signing demar is the right move, again if only to be traded when his value naturally goes up during the regular season. we were second in the east, won 56 games, made the conference finals and have 5 years of consistent improvement team wise and player wise. to assume that all of that is done and there is no where to go but down is ludicrous. except for lowry now one is over 30, scola might be back but i doubt it, and his 2 replacements are already being groomed. this program is being built to plug and play at all 5 positions. for the first 5 years casey screamed he wanted vets. now those kids are the vets and we are bringing in new kids.

the future is bright, don't believe the unhype

Very well put

[KHD]

sorry but, if jordans dad doesn't die. the dream has 0 rings and michael has 8.

for the bolded. i have never said we shouldn't do what we can to improve. i have also made many suggestions on ways that the offense could be run bettter. i have also said, repeatedly, that i can see us trading demar. i disagree with "blow it up" and i disagree with the idea that we get better by letting demar walk in the summer for nothing. if the idea is long term growth, signing demar is the right move, again if only to be traded when his value naturally goes up during the regular season. we were second in the east, won 56 games, made the conference finals and have 5 years of consistent improvement team wise and player wise. to assume that all of that is done and there is no where to go but down is ludicrous. except for lowry now one is over 30, scola might be back but i doubt it, and his 2 replacements are already being groomed. this program is being built to plug and play at all 5 positions. for the first 5 years casey screamed he wanted vets. now those kids are the vets and we are bringing in new kids.

the future is bright, don't believe the unhype

I'm not saying "blow it up". I just don't think that we should commit to a max contract for Derozan. I disagree that he's going to have a lot of value when he is playing the way he does and getting paid that much.

We were second in the east and made the ECF and that's great but lets look at the reality of the situation. we beat up on the shittiest teams in the conference (NYK,BRK,PHI) to get that record number of wins. We scraped through 2 rounds of the playoffs thanks to JV physically obliterating Indiana, and thanks to Miami having almost nobody left healthy.

Lets not confuse winning with progress.

I don't think the future isn't bright, if we make smart choices.

My analogy is that the highway exit we need is coming up, and we've got a few lanes of traffic to cross. let's start moving over now, while we can do it without slamming on the binders.

[Miekenstien]

I'm not saying "blow it up". I just don't think that we should commit to a max contract for Derozan. I disagree that he's going to have a lot of value when he is playing the way he does and getting paid that much.

We were second in the east and made the ECF and that's great but lets look at the reality of the situation. we beat up on the shittiest teams in the conference (NYK,BRK,PHI) to get that record number of wins. We scraped through 2 rounds of the playoffs thanks to JV physically obliterating Indiana, and thanks to Miami having almost nobody left healthy.

first bold
but we aren't committing to anything. we are paying 5 dollars for a 5 dollar bike. market value for a current asset. an asset that can/will be moved if needed. rather easily i would expect as well.

2nd bold
simply not true. we had a great road record and a great record against the good teams of the league. we were just as injured as the heat and you point to jv yourself. who was our best player, by far, in the playoffs and then injured the same game as whiteside. and i don't think there was a team in the playoffs with more pressure on them then the raptors to win in the first round.

[KHD]

first bold
but we aren't committing to anything. we are paying 5 dollars for a 5 dollar bike. market value for a current asset. an asset that can/will be moved if needed. rather easily i would expect as well.

2nd bold
simply not true. we had a great road record and a great record against the good teams of the league. we were just as injured as the heat and you point to jv yourself. who was our best player, by far, in the playoffs and then injured the same game as whiteside. and i don't think there was a team in the playoffs with more pressure on them then the raptors to win in the first round.

1st point:

i hope you're correct.


2nd point:
we went 14-2 against the Atlantic.

3/5 atlantic teams were the bottom 3 teams in the conference.

there is a little bit of inflation there, no?

again, not saying we weren't a good team this season (in the regular season), but there is context to be considered. All i'm saying is lets not assume that this team is good to go for the future just based on 1 good season.

[Barolt]

not sure when this is from exactly but yeah... cavaliers are blowing the league away with spending.

let them have their Manchester City moment. Once it happens Dan Gilbert is going to cheap out. book it.

Here's where context matters.

Guaranteed spending for next year:

69m for Raptors.

73m for Warriors.

72m for Cavs.

65m for Thunder.

[KHD]

Here's where context matters.

Guaranteed spending for next year:

69m for Raptors.

73m for Warriors.

72m for Cavs.

65m for Thunder.

Yeah.

But it doesn't change the fact that the cavs went all in this season, does it?

GSW is an anomaly because Curry's ankle troubles got him signed at 12M /year which is maybe the best contract ever. But they do have some decisions to make on Barnes and Ezeli.

OKC has to deal with the Durant situation as well as Waiters.

Cleveland has to re-sign lebron, and has to decide on Dellavashithead and JR smith.

For us it's really Demar and Biyombo that are the key moving parts.


Now, IMO, outside of GSW we are the most capable of adjusting to the scenario of not re-signing their big names.

Cleveland can't go a different direction. We can and probably should.

[Atothe]

If The Cavs don't win, do you think LeBron resigns?

[rocwell]

If The Cavs don't win, do you think LeBron resigns?

I bet he will resign. Otherwise Cleveland PD is going to arrest him and lock his talents in the county jail.

[iblastoff]

That Gay/DeMar offense was awful. Seriously? You're defending THAT?

The reason I don't think DeMar can be an effective #3 option is because you want your third option to be a guy who can spot-up and take advantage of extra defensive attention paid to other guys.

If JV is your main guy, and DeMar is your third option, and JV passes out of a packed post to DeMar spotting up...

DeMar's best way to score is to drive that ball right back into the paint that's full of defenders. Ross is a better option there, or literally anyone who can functionally shoot 3s.

JV doesn't have the awareness to find open 3 shooters. whens the last time you've ever seen JV pass the ball back outside the 3 point line besides to reset the post?

and every players 'best way to score' is to obviously get closer to the basket.

[Barolt]

JV doesn't have the awareness to find open 3 shooters. whens the last time you've ever seen JV pass the ball back outside the 3 point line besides to reset the post?

and every players 'best way to score' is to obviously get closer to the basket.

JV had the highest playmaking eFG% of all centers in the league this year. His playmaking usage was low, but when we used him in that capacity he was great. The reality is we have very little ball or player movement, so most of the time there aren't any open shooters.

[iblastoff]

JV had the highest playmaking eFG% of all centers in the league this year. His playmaking usage was low, but when we used him in that capacity he was great. The reality is we have very little ball or player movement, so most of the time there aren't any open shooters.

his playmaking usage is extremely low at 2.3% so its pretty irrelevant. only person lower is biyombo. so i'm not expecting a system where JV passes out of the post for spot up shots any time soon, regardless of whether its going to be to DD or ross or whoever. i don't even know if he can actually do that if it were asked of him anyway.

JV is not a gasol or joakim noah. i don't see him playing the passing game.

but yes i agree the lack of general movement of everyone on the court just exacerbates the entire offensive issue anyway.

[3inthekeon]

How many of our players are above average passers for the positions they play.

Off the top of my head, JJ is the only one.