The Transformation of the Raptors under Ujiri's Direction

[JWash]

Ujiri is doing a great job with this team, not just on a roster-level but also working in tandem with Leiweke to really make this franchise legitimate again. Really respect his vision and attention to detail when it comes to transforming the Raptors.

[thead]

Since that happened, can we talk DeRozan here?

Wanna see my ban hammer?

[KHD]

this thread got derailed

derozan has caused more vitriol than bargnani for sure at this point.

[JimiCliff]

derozan has caused more vitriol than bargnani for sure at this point.

Man imagine if this place had been around when Vince pussed his way out of town.

[raptors999]

Thibs is absolutely an upgrade on Casey.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Thibs might not be available. There was something about the Bulls getting off the hook on his salary if he signed this season to be coach. Just something I read somewhere

[Mapko]

In what universe is 11th best "slightly better" than 23rd best defence?

Considering that Bulls had 3 elite defensive players who had played significant minutes (Butler, Noah, Gibson), whereby Case had at his disposal "Defensive magicians" (now I see you in front of me, next you are making a layup) Lou & GV (neither with the team), as well as DD & JVal, the difference frankly is not as big as it should have been.

I'm curious how 2015-16 Bulls (with basically same team & new coach) rank in overall D, as well as how Casey manages this new Raps with players that understand defensive concepts.
Lets see if the rank (11 vs 23) changes. The overall talent level (from defensive point of view) is much closer this year.

Again, Thibs was LIKELY available before MU extended Casey. There has to be a reason why (and money hopefully, was not the main reason).

[Primer]

Considering that Bulls had 3 elite defensive players who had played significant minutes (Butler, Noah, Gibson), whereby Case had at his disposal "Defensive magicians" (now I see you in front of me, next you are making a layup) Lou & GV (neither with the team), as well as DD & JVal, the difference frankly is not as big as it should have been.

I'm curious how 2015-16 Bulls (with basically same team & new coach) rank in overall D, as well as how Casey manages this new Raps with players that understand defensive concepts.
Lets see if the rank (11 vs 23) changes. The overall talent level (from defensive point of view) is much closer this year.

Again, Thibs was LIKELY available before MU extended Casey. There has to be a reason why (and money hopefully, was not the main reason).

Thibs was still the Bulls coach when Masai extended Casey before last season. Casey is just now entering the last guaranteed year of his deal.

I agree with you it seems the plan is to see how Casey fares with the defensive upgrades. He might be a lot better, and we have to pay him regardless. We also have some good assistants we could promote if we need to fire Casey mid season.

[DanH]

This is also just like the [redacted] thread, cherry picking one year to tell a story. Yes, Thibs had the 11th ranked defence last year. And in prior years, he had consistent top 5 appearances. Casey has no such track record, with only one borderline top 10 defence to his name.

[DanH]

As for three elite defenders, it has been widely reported that Butler took a step back defensively because he had to carry such a big load offensively, anyone who watched Noah last year could see he wasn't the same player, and Gibson is breaking down just like Amir (and who would argue Amir's defence was the same this past year?).

[Just Is]

Thibs might not be available. There was something about the Bulls getting off the hook on his salary if he signed this season to be coach. Just something I read somewhere

Chicago is still paying him.

The way I would see it (and the way I interpret it based on how that relationship ended), I don't think Thibs would be taking any head coaching jobs until after Chicago has to stop paying him. Granted, from everything I read about him, it seemed like he took his job insanely seriously so ... I only have this theory based on the spite outweighing the other factors.

Additionally, as has been pointed out, Casey was retained prior to Chicago letting him go. It would look really bad to let Casey go for Thibs in that circumstance...AND we would still have to pay Casey anyways.

[Demographic Shift]

A pause from the panacea move of trading demar and firing dwane as the cure that fixes the raptors forever and also cures pattern male baldness, the common cold and high housing prices in Vancouver/Toronto. and Back to the thread...The Transformation of the Raps Under MU which is by and large has been very very successful.

How'd he do it ?

The McHappy post really is an incredible eye opener... in just 3 years the overall pool of talent and skill went from a below average talent base to one thats on the whole above or slightly above average..

The CalgaryRapsFan and RepTdot view's that we no longer have expensive dead weight contracts for guys at the end of their careers and who are 3rd on the depth chart at their positions. Instead we have low cost deals for young players who just might make a difference.

The BS10 and Uncle Si views that getting a D League team and a state of the art practice facility are significant changes that show we are a destination market if you will. Kind of like a visit to Duke vs a visit to East Oklahoma State.

The Thead point on now he masterfully accumulatied 4 . yes count em four !! first round draft picks. One that could be a top 10 lottery slot this coming draft .

All of this seems to point to an over arching strategy that Ujiri brings which is in place in Europe with soccer and hockey teams. Its the strategy of the "club" team, a style of play(an identity if you like), bringing in players that fit your style of play and a lot attention on succession planning.
The club team strategy says you play your best most ready players with the A team but more importantly you have a second or B team if you will developing at all times to funnel talent up to the A team. To support that B team and club strategy Ujiri and Liewekie have put in place the D-Leauge team for that talent to play. Bruno and Bebe and Powell and Wright and others will play in the D League. They will practice at a state of the art facility and learn the system with the A team. They might see minutes during the season with the A team as part of that development. It infuses professionalism into the kids.
Other Ujiri tactics to support his strategy;
- build a pipeline of draft picks to keep the talent coming for the B team or add to the A team. He has flexibility to act on the best option presented
- have a succession plan in place (if Ross can't cut it you have Powell developing.... if Biyombo doesn't work out you have Bebe developing)

Ujiri has a strategy and has implemented tactics to support it. Tactics without a strategy is like watching a Colangelo off season of ready fire aim series of moves in the hope something sticks.

[KHD]

A pause from the panacea move of trading demar and firing dwane as the cure that fixes the raptors forever and also cures pattern male baldness, the common cold and high housing prices in Vancouver/Toronto. and Back to the thread...The Transformation of the Raps Under MU which is by and large has been very very successful.

How'd he do it ?

The McHappy post really is an incredible eye opener... in just 3 years the overall pool of talent and skill went from a below average talent base to one thats on the whole above or slightly above average..

The CalgaryRapsFan and RepTdot view's that we no longer have expensive dead weight contracts for guys at the end of their careers and who are 3rd on the depth chart at their positions. Instead we have low cost deals for young players who just might make a difference.

The BS10 and Uncle Si views that getting a D League team and a state of the art practice facility are significant changes that show we are a destination market if you will. Kind of like a visit to Duke vs a visit to East Oklahoma State.

The Thead point on now he masterfully accumulatied 4 . yes count em four !! first round draft picks. One that could be a top 10 lottery slot this coming draft .

All of this seems to point to an over arching strategy that Ujiri brings which is in place in Europe with soccer and hockey teams. Its the strategy of the "club" team, a style of play(an identity if you like), bringing in players that fit your style of play and a lot attention on succession planning.
The club team strategy says you play your best most ready players with the A team but more importantly you have a second or B team if you will developing at all times to funnel talent up to the A team. To support that B team and club strategy Ujiri and Liewekie have put in place the D-Leauge team for that talent to play. Bruno and Bebe and Powell and Wright and others will play in the D League. They will practice at a state of the art facility and learn the system with the A team. They might see minutes during the season with the A team as part of that development. It infuses professionalism into the kids.
Other Ujiri tactics to support his strategy;
- build a pipeline of draft picks to keep the talent coming for the B team or add to the A team. He has flexibility to act on the best option presented
- have a succession plan in place (if Ross can't cut it you have Powell developing.... if Biyombo doesn't work out you have Bebe developing)

Ujiri has a strategy and has implemented tactics to support it. Tactics without a strategy is like watching a Colangelo off season of ready fire aim series of moves in the hope something sticks.

hopefully we stay this course rather than selling the farm for a very short championship window. Let's aim for sustained excellence.

[Demographic Shift]

hopefully we stay this course rather than selling the farm for a very short championship window. Let's aim for sustained excellence.

Which is the logical outcome of the club team strategy. You become the Duke or North Carolina of the NBA.
Always lots of talent, always there, always a chance win it all.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I definitely like MU's team-building strategy that enables the team to have sustainable winning, rather than short boom/bust stretches like some other teams. What makes me curious is MU's opinion about the Raptors window for truly contending with this core, as opposed to simply being competitive in the East and hoping to get past the first (and second) round.

Does the window start with the upcoming season, or not for another few years? If it's the latter, should guys like Lowry (29) and Carroll (29) really be considered part of the core? Or are they bridge guys, who help push the team forward in the short-term, who can then be cashed-in as trade chips to help the younger core take that next step?

I do like building a good young team of players who can contribute or be considered valuable assets (no dead weight and no albatross contracts):
- Biyombo (22)
- Caboclo (19)
- DeRozan (26)
- Joseph (24)
- Nogueira (23)
- Patterson (26)
- Powell (22)
- Ross (24)
- Valanciunas (23)
- Wright (23)

--> 10 players: average age is 23.2

[DogeLover1234]

In a recent chat, kevin pelton said that he thinks a sort or underutilized building method is drafting a lot of mid-late first round pick and hope for a rudy gobert or jimmy butler amongst the inevitable busts. I almost feel like this is MUs plan to get a superstar when u see our upcoming picks and consider bebe as one as well. Thats basically 7 first round picks in 4 years with likely only one being a lotto pick. Who knows if it works, but hes banking a lot on himself as a talent evaluator and the coaches to develop.