The feeling of seeing Masai Ujiri doing work in comparison to Bryan Colangelo

[Partfoop]

This whole conversation, coupled with Andre Iguodala's MVP reminds me of just how much damage Babcock did to this team. That guy was the worst.

[Primer]

I don't like the options that are provided under the poll and once again we see RR over reacting to a summer moves (66%) just like last summer.

The truth of the matter is that I still think MU made a huge mistake keeping DC and after that, made a bigger mistake for not hiring a top notch offensive assistant for him.

I also think MU is making a mistake keeping KL in this team because I don't think KL will ever be a pass first PG.

Unless DC uses JJ at PF ( highly doubt it), we still have a huge hole in that position which will really hurt our team.

Now, what is a fact is that MU has shown he can build a good regular season team by little over paying hard worker players and having a balanced bench. He did that in Denver and made a team that won 50 game.

He did a great job of that with Raptors this summer ( Carroll and Joseph) and this team is better equipped to win more regular season games.

However, MU has not shown us to be able to get a star and make the next step in building a team. That is missing from him resume in Denver and he has not been able to do so here either.

We are missing the option #1 in this team and some can argue that we are missing option #2 as well if DD does not improve this season and make the transition.

So in summary, for me, MU has made some mistakes but has made some decent moves as well but this team, will not be able to Win a play off series this year unless JV, Ross, Joseph and DD made a significant improvements and KL changes the way he runs the team.

Kyle Lowry is one of the best players in the league, why does it matter if he's a pass first PG? Curry isn't a pass first PG and just won the title. Keeping players (especially our best player on a great contract) shouldn't be considered a mistake. We have no idea what is available in trades, it's not completely in the GM's control.

You can definitely criticize a GM for signing players, since that is completely in their control. For instance, I wasn't fond of the GV signing, but Masai has rectified that mistake and turned him into a 1st and Normal Powell. Pretty damn impressive to turn your biggest roster mistake into 1st round pick, good 2nd round pick, and cap space.

I'm not fond of retaining Casey either, but I'll reserve final judgment there until we see what happens this season and in the offseason. If Casey still looks like shit and we retain him I'll be pretty damn upset.

[Bendit]

Nash was "hijacked" from Dallas. If memory serves me, it was a very unCuban thing to do trying to nickel/dime Nash. He was a very good friend of Dirk and didnt want to leave. I believe even Cuban wanted to keep him but decided to hardball on salary. BC flew in and impressed Nash and he signed.

Re the Alridge bypass in favour of Bargs, lets not forget that Chicago draft day traded him for the great Tyrus Thomas who turned out decidedly worse including temperament than Bargnani.

That said, I believe Masai is fundamentally better in my view because he is a talent evaluator/scout at his core and understands how to mesh the various talent components on a roster. I also hear that he allows his relatively flat organization to do their jobs rather than micro manage. And he is patient to his plan.

[Apollo]

Let's not forget about Adam Morrison as well who some "experts" were saying might be the next Larry Bird. Oh and then there was Shelden Williams. The top five was a complete minefield. All GMs involved eventually were fired except Jordan.





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[Bendit]

Let's not forget about Adam Morrison as well who some "experts" were saying might be the next Larry Bird.

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One of the "experts"? Michael Jordan possibly the greatest basketball talent but to this day the bad talent evaluator. This is a big puzzle for me.

[Apollo]

Yes, he may have gotten the best of Zeke on the court but when it came to evaluating talent we all know who the man was there in that area.

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[McRealistic]

Kyle Lowry is one of the best players in the league, why does it matter if he's a pass first PG? Curry isn't a pass first PG and just won the title..

KL is not Curry so your comparison is meaningless.

Keeping players (especially our best player on a great contract) shouldn't be considered a mistake. We have no idea what is available in trades, it's not completely in the GM's control.
.

Best Players !!! Ok, I am not even going to get into that. Keeping a player that does not fit your system and does not utilize all your assets and firing power is a mistake with no regards to what kind of contract he is on.

If you have a good player that is on a great contract but does not fit your system, you need to trade him and get a player that does fit.

if the usage that DD and KL had last year continues this year, we will certainly not capitalize on Carroll on offence ( he needs ball rotation) and will still not give the ball to JV enough.

One of the qualities of a good GM is to be able to move assets and create interest on them. It is the number one rule of sales. If there is customer, then everyone is a good sale person. It is tough to sale when you have to entice someone and make them believe they need what you have to offer.

Again, MU has done many great things but he has not shown anywhere before or here in Toronto, that he is able to sign a STAR player ( option 1 and 2 in a championship team type player) and win in Play offs.

[Bendit]

KL is not Curry so your comparison is meaningless.



Best Players !!! Ok, I am not even going to get into that. Keeping a player that does not fit your system and does not utilize all your assets and firing power is a mistake with no regards to what kind of contract he is on.

If you have a good player that is on a great contract but does not fit your system, you need to trade him and get a player that does fit.

if the usage that DD and KL had last year continues this year, we will certainly not capitalize on Carroll on offence ( he needs ball rotation) and will still not give the ball to JV enough.

One of the qualities of a good GM is to be able to move assets and create interest on them. It is the number one rule of sales. If there is customer, then everyone is a good sale person. It is tough to sale when you have to entice someone and make them believe they need what you have to offer.

Again, MU has done many great things but he has not shown anywhere before or here in Toronto, that he is able to sign a STAR player ( option 1 and 2 in a championship team type player) and win in Play offs.

The bold is a bit unfair. He has been in 2 locations now as GM...Den & Tor (about 3 yrs. each) after taking over teams with negative issues. In Den he had to deal with the Melo thing and incorporate some new players into the mix. I will say his acquisitions of McGee, Hickson & Arthur were less than "homeruns"! However to your point both locations have not been considered favourably by free agents so we know how difficult it is to get the Level A free agent to even consider a team which in addition does not have a winning tradition or poised to..though Den has with a hall of fame coach but ownership I think there was a bit tight with the wallet. And of course the cold!

But things seem to be changing. There is a new breed of f/a who consider winning the first/only consideration (Alridge even considering the Raps for a meet). If the team has an incremental leap in Ws this season we may very well get closer to that Level A f/a next yr. ...but will we have the cap space? In anycase MU needs some more time before we should consider him a failure re lack of signing the put-over-the-top free agent.

[Quirk]

Does anyone have MU's win-loss record as a GM handy?

[JimiCliff]

Nash was "hijacked" from Dallas. If memory serves me, it was a very unCuban thing to do trying to nickel/dime Nash. He was a very good friend of Dirk and didnt want to leave. I believe even Cuban wanted to keep him but decided to hardball on salary. BC flew in and impressed Nash and he signed.

Re the Alridge bypass in favour of Bargs, lets not forget that Chicago draft day traded him for the great Tyrus Thomas who turned out decidedly worse including temperament than Bargnani.

That said, I believe Masai is fundamentally better in my view because he is a talent evaluator/scout at his core and understands how to mesh the various talent components on a roster. I also hear that he allows his relatively flat organization to do their jobs rather than micro manage. And he is patient to his plan.

They were also worried about his health - back, especially. He didn't seem durable at that point in his career.

But hey, it freed up money for them to sign Marc Jackson! (Or was it Adonal Foyle? Or maybe someone else. All I remember is it was a stiff centre.)

[Joey]

But hey, if freed up money for them to sign Marc Jackson! (Or was it Adonal Foyle? Or maybe someone else. All I remember is it was a stiff centre.)

Raef LaFrenz... I believe.

[JimiCliff]

Raef LaFrenz... I believe.

Eric Dampier!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erick_Dampier

Hahaha I knew it was one of the stiff centres.

[Joey]

Eric Dampier!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erick_Dampier

Hahaha I knew it was one of the stiff centres.

Hah touché. That was a terrible contract .. He did have a massive year before that tho I believe.

[planetmars]

Does anyone have MU's win-loss record as a GM handy?

Regular season:
145-85 (with Denver)
97-67 (with Toronto)

242-152 (Total) - good for 61% Winning percentage which is equivalent to a 50 win season.


Playoffs:
6-12 (Denver)
3-8 (Toronto)

9-20 (Total). Never got out of the first round in 5 opportunities out of 5. Got swept once.

[tonious35]

I don't think this is fair. I'm not going to detail everything Colangelo has done in his career but the guy has hit many home runs in the draft, FA and via trades. He's also had playoff successes. More so than the Raptors have seen. His problem is that he's a big risk taker and the risks he took in Toronto mostly all blew up in his face.

Is Ujiri a better GM than Colangelo? I'd say certainly yes. Is Colangelo incompetent and incapable of running a pro team? I'd say clearly no. He's better than some people running teams in the league and was one of the darlings of the league prior to Toronto.

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Not going to deny that Colangelo made moves that ended up being good to great results with the Raps (TJ Ford, Parker, Garbo, draft Valanciunus, draft DeRozan, getting rid of Fucking Hoffa for ex-Kardashian).

But to my feeling of the situation now, barring the elements that are out of the GMs control (injuries, divisional rivals one-upping-us, meteors crashing, etc), Ujiri has better vision and composure to manage the Raps and personally talk to his own players if anything serious pops up.