How many moves are we from title contention?

[Mindlessness]

Being fair means being accurate and reading carefully

I've been fair to too many fucking coaches in too many ducking sports.

So no, fuck SJ, I want Dwane Casey fired. That's that.

[iblastoff]

But it wasn't the same (fucking) people, right? SuperJudge mentioned the injuries (which hit our two best players ... and T-Ross). And Lou Williams came in and got to be "Sweet Lou", right? (I suppose Casey should have been able to predict when he'd get "hot"? and "cold")?

Being fair means being accurate and reading carefully

the dude said lowry just stopped being good after his contract year. nothing about being injured. injured lowry was last year in the playoffs where he was physically hobbling in game 2/3 and still played like a star.

odd how you're focusing on the injuries when superjudge said everyone just sucked. i thought being fair was being accurate and reading carefully?

as for lou, uh yeah obviously you make lou STOP doing end of quarter iso plays when it only worked in like two games all year.

funny that he basically contradicts himself saying players are what makes coaches look good or bad and yet somehow gives casey credit for the 2013-2014 run, but then we play like shit and all of a sudden its on the players.

[Wild-ling#1]

the dude said lowry just stopped being good after his contract year. nothing about being injured. injured lowry was last year in the playoffs where he was physically hobbling in game 2/3 and still played like a star.

odd how you're focusing on the injuries when superjudge said everyone just sucked. i thought being fair was being accurate and reading carefully?

as for lou, uh yeah obviously you make lou STOP doing end of quarter iso plays when it only worked in like two games all year.

funny that he basically contradicts himself saying players are what makes coaches look good or bad and yet somehow gives casey credit for the 2013-2014 run, but then we play like shit and all of a sudden its on the players.

SJ raised player issues that Casey had little control over. I added the Kyle injury, and Lou's coming, to counter the claim that the team had the same players as 2013, save John Salmons.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to second-guess NBA coaches, generally. I am happy (!) to assume that there are some on this board who are knowledgeable enough.

But I am sophisticated enough to judge a good argument. Some of the things said on this subject are questionable.

So while everyone's entitled to their opinion, and there are knowledgeable people against me here, I'm going to side with Masai (etc.) - and so with Casey - until early 2016 at the earliest.

[3inthekeon]

JV got fat? thats what happens when you sit the guy on the pine and take away his minutes

Maybe this year Casey shouldn't be handing JV buckets of Haagen Dazs when he's sitting on the bench.

[DanH]

For the record, some of us DID hate a lot of what Casey was doing even in that magical second half of the 2013-14 season.

[raptors999]

Toronto doesn't have a starting PF and Casey has decided to bench the starting C in favor of a player that isn't good enough to start at their own position at C in the off season. He is a complete idiot

[iblastoff]

SJ raised player issues that Casey had little control over. I added the Kyle injury, and Lou's coming, to counter the claim that the team had the same players as 2013, save John Salmons.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to second-guess NBA coaches, generally. I am happy (!) to assume that there are some on this board who are knowledgeable enough.

But I am sophisticated enough to judge a good argument. Some of the things said on this subject are questionable.

So while everyone's entitled to their opinion, and there are knowledgeable people against me here, I'm going to side with Masai (etc.) - and so with Casey - until early 2016 at the earliest.

the 'player issues casey had little control over' included what exactly? JVs playing time? supposedly letting lou do whatever he wants? constantly DNP'ing an above average defender in JJ that masai brought in? playing dumb ass small ball against golden state? yeah we had injuries. whoop dee do. if anything, caseys been extremely lucky that the team has been relatively injury-free over the years compared to the majority of other teams out there.

[Matt Damon]

Yep.

Nobody hated him 2 years ago when toronto was snapping the ball around playing beautiful ball, and grinding on defence.

Then Lowry got a contract, and stopped being good lowry....again
Then JV got fat
Then Ross....did nothing
Then Vasquez believed his hype.
Then Patterson kinda went back to where he has always been
Then MU Picked up a catalyst for a flat out shooting competition and battle for touches in Lou Williams.
Then Derozan ripped his groin in half.


A lot happened that would be hard for pretty much any coach, or coaching staff to overcome. Toronto, with MU, Casey and the assistants were clearly very collaborative, and when people like to rip into Casey, they are assuming that that whole staff must mysteriously have a collective understanding of basketball less than that of the average knucklehead on an online messageboard.

This amuses me.

The ignorance is real with you.

Previous success and in-season adversity does not justify awful scheme and decision making by a coach all season.

It must be exhausting defending Casey.. JV got fat... really? That's all you can come up with? JV was put in a limited role because he 'got fat'?

Your comments amuse me.

[e_wheazhy_]

The ignorance is real with you.

Previous success and in-season adversity does not justify awful scheme and decision making by a coach all season.

It must be exhausting defending Casey.. JV got fat... really? That's all you can come up with? JV was put in a limited role because he 'got fat'?

Your comments amuse me.

Casey don't mess with no chubbers

[Wild-ling#1]

the 'player issues casey had little control over' included what exactly? JVs playing time? supposedly letting lou do whatever he wants? constantly DNP'ing an above average defender in JJ that masai brought in? playing dumb ass small ball against golden state? yeah we had injuries. whoop dee do. if anything, caseys been extremely lucky that the team has been relatively injury-free over the years compared to the majority of other teams out there.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post429406

The link is to a Feb 2015 RR exchange. Casey is ridiculed for not playing (beloved) JJ at PF for months after (it is alleged) RR members had lobbied for this move. Two regular members support this view.

... Two other members point out (with evidence) that Casey had actually been doing this regularly.

So it goes for Dwayne Casey, sometimes ... apparently.

By the way, you might envy me (as a rookie). I am going through old RR threads like others devour newly-discovered Netflix series ... series that have been running on HBO for years ...

[3inthekeon]

Casey's defensive scheme involves a lot of hedging .

JV can't hedge.

Board hates hedging scheme .

Masai brings in 2 more excellent hedgers,

http://www.vantagesports.com/story/V...in-the-raptors

http://www.vantagesports.com/story/V...reen-defenders

[Wild-ling#1]

The ignorance is real with you.

Previous success and in-season adversity does not justify awful scheme and decision making by a coach all season.

It must be exhausting defending Casey.. JV got fat... really? That's all you can come up with? JV was put in a limited role because he 'got fat'?

Your comments amuse me.

(The rudeness is strong with you, it seems).

Anyway, I'm likely among the last to see this May, 2015 RR interview with Jack Armstrong.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/...ack-armstrong/

Armstrong opines, directly and at length, as to whether or not Masai was wrong to retain Dwayne Casey - and why.

Was he being diplomatic? Actually, I think "yes, maybe a little" (as a former coach). But he was awfully candid about Kyle Lowry's play and attitude. And he needn't have offered nearly the detail as to his views on Casey and the team.

You might want to look again. I think he NAILS the off-season moves - if you can see Scola as the necessary locker-room guru.


(Way to go Kiyan Sobhani!)

[Superjudge]

thanks for the support my friend, its not often around here.

One thing that has long bothered me, and why im here less and less is that people dont read posts, dont try to understand what youre saying, then add in their own meanings to suit whatever slant they'd like to take.

An example, I never gave Casey credit for toronto playing well in 2013, I simply mentioned nobody was calling for his head. Seem sto me its the rest of the people here who reacted to the losing.

Another, I have said tim eafter time that casey has a role in toronto's lack of sucsess, yet time and time again, because people like to argue and fight, guys here completely skip over that stuff...sam e with JV, i can talk about potential all day, I can post about how i think he can pul it together.... but state the truth about what he's doing right now....I'm a hater!!!! Hey listen, he's slow, and his fitness is his fault, not the coaches.... and to be honest ,he is a disaster a lot of games when he touches the ball.... dont look at the coach to se it, look at his teammates who refuse to give him the ball.

So You can say all the "fuck Sj's" you like, and this scalabrine guy can play internet keyboard warrior all day if he so chooses. It doesn't much change anything. I just call it lie it is, and when it changes, i will call it as such then too.

[ebrian]

I'd like to redefine the meaning of "title contender". Do you really mean title contention, or do you mean Eastern Conference Champion contender, because I've grown tired of hearing that the East is the easy path to the NBA Finals. Yes, it's an easy path -- to getting steamrolled by a far superior Western Conference team.

The Cavs suffered some unlucky injuries, but at the end of the day the only team to really challenge the Warriors during the playoffs was the Houston Rockets, not the Cavs. Cavs made a series out of it during the first few games, but I think it's because they truly played with desperation, which they wouldn't have if they still had healthy Love/Irving. And also the Warriors struggled earlier on due more to Finals jitters. Curry's MVP was called into question, and then once he showed up, the series was basically over.

The Cavs with a healthy Love and Irving are title contenders. They'd have a legitimate shot at beating the Warriors with Lebron averaging some godly numbers like 35/12/10. But that's also with Love's 20/15, Irvin's 20/10/5, etc.

So for the Raptors to be a legitimate title contender, I would say 2 things need to happen.

First we'd need to acquire Lebron James. I'm not saying we need a Lebron-caliber player like Kevin Durant. I'm saying we need to actually take Lebron away from the Cavaliers, because if the Cavs have Lebron and we have a Lebron clone, the Cavs still beat us. ie: We wouldn't even make the Finals.

We'd have to take Lebron James away from the Cavs, making us a less superior team reaching the NBA Finals than last years' Cavs team. And then we'd need the second thing to occur:

We'd need Curry, or James Harden, to suffer a season ending injury.

[Snooch]

thanks for the support my friend, its not often around here.

One thing that has long bothered me, and why im here less and less is that people dont read posts, dont try to understand what youre saying, then add in their own meanings to suit whatever slant they'd like to take.

An example, I never gave Casey credit for toronto playing well in 2013, I simply mentioned nobody was calling for his head. Seem sto me its the rest of the people here who reacted to the losing.

Another, I have said tim eafter time that casey has a role in toronto's lack of sucsess, yet time and time again, because people like to argue and fight, guys here completely skip over that stuff...sam e with JV, i can talk about potential all day, I can post about how i think he can pul it together.... but state the truth about what he's doing right now....I'm a hater!!!! Hey listen, he's slow, and his fitness is his fault, not the coaches.... and to be honest ,he is a disaster a lot of games when he touches the ball.... dont look at the coach to se it, look at his teammates who refuse to give him the ball.

So You can say all the "fuck Sj's" you like, and this scalabrine guy can play internet keyboard warrior all day if he so chooses. It doesn't much change anything. I just call it lie it is, and when it changes, i will call it as such then too.

Problem with Casey is he doesnt coach to his players, he tries to peg players to his coaching.

With the exception of Lou and Demar, they could do whatever the hell they wanted, whenever they wanted with no recourse.

I think if you removed some of our "Key" PLayers and instead provided a far more balanced roster then casey would appear a better coach.