OK. Markieff Morris a Raptor? Really??

[Wild-ling#1]

Some of you guys seem way too concerned about giving up depth. Talent consolidation wins out 9 times out of 10 IMO.

Absolutely agreed. It's why I've said I'm "in" for an MM trade involving:

PP+JJ+(any two of) Bebe or Powell or Delon+our lower 1st rounder.

I'd like to keep T-Ross and Bruno, but that's about it (though I don't really see a 5-player/pick swap, really).

Obviously one would want to give up waaaaaaaay less. But I'm with you on consolidation, mate!

[SkywalkerAC]

Absolutely agreed. It's why I've said I'm "in" for an MM trade involving:

PP+JJ+(any two of) Bebe or Powell or Delon+our lower 1st rounder.

I'd like to keep T-Ross and Bruno, but that's about it (though I don't really see a 5-player/pick swap, really).

Obviously one would want to give up waaaaaaaay less. But I'm with you on consolidation, mate!

See I really wouldn't want to give up Delon or Powell, as they are hand-picked prospects, that are pretty much ready to contribute, with great contract value. Picks are valuable in the same way, except contain way more future uncertainty and we are more and more overloaded, having 4 first-rounders in the next two drafts (hopefully). Bebe is expendable with Biyombo in the fold I guess.

Ross, on the other hand, is up for extension and his QO isn't all that low. That's fine if you're Phoenix and have need (for a starting 2-guard), but for us 5+ mill for a backup starts looking a little steep (though quite doable if you have no interest in cap space). Also, given his contract Cory is all but guaranteed minutes at the 2-spot and I'm not seeing where else they come from.

Patterson is great value for contract, but so is Morris. JJ has value but I'd guess it's unlikely he's retained after this year so...

[BS10]

I think I recall a writer suggesting that Sullinger himself might go. He's young and does have a PER of nearly 18. But he's not a stretch-4. Doesn't shoot 3's well.

So "stacked" doesn't sound quite right to me, if you consider that fan-favourite, all-time-good-guy Amir Johnson went there - and he's no more than half of our failed platoon from last-year (and cost them $12M per!). MM's contract is so good that (strange as it might seem for Amir to make more than MM as back-up) $20M for both MM and Amir might put them in good position at PF.

And they trade Sullinger straight-up. Or with a pick/prospect. Don't they have lots of those? And I think the Suns take Sullinger over the other half of our failed platoon.

Do they do it? I'm hoping that they're "one-year from being one-year-away", so to speak. And that they want Sullinger more than MM. Somehow ...

Or they're cheap. Or stupider. Stupid-er than Masai, anyway.

I've seen Sullinger play and thinks he's a good player but the talent level drop between him and Kieff is significant. Kieff's upside and talent make him way more valuable as a player than Sullinger. Perhaps stats say otherwise but if I were the Suns, I wouldn't take that deal unless they're planning on hitting the reset button.

What I meant by stacked is that they already have a lot of players at that same position. I didn't mean that they were all going to be great contributors to the team. I think Lee will probably be used more than the rest, if anything.

I think the Celtics are in a middle zone where they are just trying to have a lot of talent and valuable assets to later flip for better talent or established players. I think by them having all these good players and assets there trying to package them for great players. And I agree that MM seems to like a likely target for their team.

I just don't think Suns are going to go from MM to Sullinger. Thats a major downgrade for them. Even if they add multiple draft picks. I think they'd rather get some young talent like a Ross, Bebe, etc.. with a high potential upside + a 4 (like 2 pat or JJ) or draft picks. I think that'd be a better return for them + be more equal for both sides.

[Wild-ling#1]

After posting to the Eastern Conference Predictions thread, I was moved to Tweet Markieff Morris and urge him to get the hell out of Phoenix!

[Wild-ling#1]

See I really wouldn't want to give up Delon or Powell, as they are hand-picked prospects, that are pretty much ready to contribute, with great contract value. Picks are valuable in the same way, except contain way more future uncertainty and we are more and more overloaded, having 4 first-rounders in the next two drafts (hopefully). Bebe is expendable with Biyombo in the fold I guess.

Ross, on the other hand, is up for extension and his QO isn't all that low. That's fine if you're Phoenix and have need (for a starting 2-guard), but for us 5+ mill for a backup starts looking a little steep (though quite doable if you have no interest in cap space). Also, given his contract Cory is all but guaranteed minutes at the 2-spot and I'm not seeing where else they come from.

Patterson is great value for contract, but so is Morris. JJ has value but I'd guess it's unlikely he's retained after this year so...

We have four picks, with two first-rounders, I understand, in the next two years. Amazing. We have high hopes for Bruno. But the other guys? Who knows ...

But we might not be able to get a better PF any other way. Not soon. We can try the draft. But who knows how long to develop that big, even if we do "hit"?

Our need is so clear, and our roster so ready to compete well otherwise ... I think getting Markieff in here is a "no-brainer". Sure, people disagree ... but that's people.

We've seen Patrick Patterson. "Give Markieff a whirl!", I say. He's likely quite trade-able if we go in another direction anyway. But - BOY!~ If the change of scenery he deeply wants, to a location he wants, does him good?

.... "dare to dream" ...

[SkywalkerAC]

We have four picks, with two first-rounders, I understand, in the next two years. Amazing. We have high hopes for Bruno. But the other guys? Who knows ...

But we might not be able to get a better PF any other way. Not soon. We can try the draft. But who knows how long to develop that big, even if we do "hit"?

Our need is so clear, and our roster so ready to compete well otherwise ... I think getting Markieff in here is a "no-brainer". Sure, people disagree ... but that's people.

We've seen Patrick Patterson. "Give Markieff a whirl!", I say. He's likely quite trade-able if we go in another direction anyway. But - BOY!~ If the change of scenery he deeply wants, to a location he wants, does him good?

.... "dare to dream" ...

I like the idea of MM from a value standpoint, but PF isn't some impossible position to fill, especially when you've got very good players at every other position. That's what makes even Patrick pretty tantalizing at this point. I think any number of players could thrive, and then some, at the 4-spot with this team.

Delon and Powell though, those guys are on the ultimate value contracts. Both look ready to contribute and, quite frankly, you'd be a fool to give them up as throw-ins.

[Wild-ling#1]

I like the idea of MM from a value standpoint, but PF isn't some impossible position to fill, especially when you've got very good players at every other position. That's what makes even Patrick pretty tantalizing at this point. I think any number of players could thrive, and then some, at the 4-spot with this team.

Delon and Powell though, those guys are on the ultimate value contracts. Both look ready to contribute and, quite frankly, you'd be a fool to give them up as throw-ins.

First (and without rancour, mind), I don't offer talent assessments from my own point of view. I don't feel qualified, really. Anyway, everyone here knows that, with the "inter-webs", you can get a lot of information and analysis without going down to the corner and buying a paper.

My understanding is that Morris is generally regarded as a significant upgrade on Patterson.

That doesn't make it true. And it doesn't mean we've seen the best of Patterson. Nor does it mean your view is wrong.

But I have been persuaded by, what seems to me, anyway, a league-wide consensus. And if I've read it right - IF - then we're a better team with him. And we don't have to be a much better team, quite possibly, to make our conference's final.

It is on this premise - alone - that I would give up the prospects I've named. I don't see them as "throw-ins" (In fact, I'm not so keen on treating people like cattle - or as "chips" - generally).

But I do have a bit of "Markieff fever". I hope it remains possible not to construe my remarks as disrespectful to anyone.

[SkywalkerAC]

First (and without rancour, mind), I don't offer talent assessments from my own point of view. I don't feel qualified, really. Anyway, everyone here knows that, with the "inter-webs", you can get a lot of information and analysis without going down to the corner and buying a paper.

My understanding is that Morris is generally regarded as a significant upgrade on Patterson.

That doesn't make it true. And it doesn't mean we've seen the best of Patterson. Nor does it mean your view is wrong.

But I have been persuaded by, what seems to me, anyway, a league-wide consensus. And if I've read it right - IF - then we're a better team with him. And we don't have to be a much better team, quite possibly, to make our conference's final.

It is on this premise - alone - that I would give up the prospects I've named. I don't see them as "throw-ins" (In fact, I'm not so keen on treating people like cattle - or as "chips" - generally).

But I do have a bit of "Markieff fever". I hope it remains possible not to construe my remarks as disrespectful to anyone.

I'm with you, I just tend to think that two of JJ/Ross/Patterson is a good enough, and expendable enough, package to Markieff. I could be wrong there, maybe they need more, and maybe they covet the youngins', but dealing Ross as he heads towards a QO of 8.8 seems less risky than trading one of our stellar-looking rookie prospects.

[Wild-ling#1]

I'm with you, I just tend to think that two of JJ/Ross/Patterson is a good enough, and expendable enough, package to Markieff. I could be wrong there, maybe they need more, and maybe they covet the youngins', but dealing Ross as he heads towards a QO of 8.8 seems less risky than trading one of our stellar-looking rookie prospects.

I know I have Markieff fever ... cause it only quite recently replaced "Scola fever"!

I was practically gushing when I saw his press-conference - what a cool guy! And there are certainly reasons to think that a tandem of Scola Patterson might be "good enough".

I'm kind of easily enthused, I guess. But I like that about me.

(As for T-Ross, I know it's eminently reasonable to decide one has run out of patience ... but as ridiculous as it might be to continue to talk of his up-side, I think the consensus would be that only Bruno has what T-Ross has ... or had ... whatever.

[TheWaterboy]

If the raptors eventually prove to be interested in Morris (and that is by no means a certainty), I think a couple of different aspects come into play in what we offer for him. The first is that we are likely looking to maintain cap flexibility for 2016's free agency period, and the second is that at this stage we are likely looking to either consolidate player assets or time-shift draft assets.

Maintaining cap flexibility in this situation means it may be difficult to come up with a trade which doesn't include Patterson unless you are willing to give up multiple young assets and/or the lower of our two firsts in the trade.

Consolidating or time-shifting our assets suggests that we should actively be considering doing something with the lower of our two first round picks in 2016 as part of this trade, even if it's something as value-neutral as including it and the right for Phoenix to trade first round picks in 2017 for Phoenix's 2018 first-round pick. It might be possible to engineer a consolidation trade for Morris which is also cap-neutral for us based on Bebe and the Toronto 2016 first-rounder, but I expect we'd need to add one more player to make it work salary-wise (and probably to make it more worthwhile for Phoenix). James Johnson/T-Ross would seem to be the most obvious candidates.

[Chr1s1anL]

I don't see scenario that 2pat isn't included in the trade.

[BS10]

With the lack of Phoenix Suns news, I think their GM is actively considering possible trade options with other teams. Hopefully, we hear something soon.

[Wild-ling#1]

If the raptors eventually prove to be interested in Morris (and that is by no means a certainty), I think a couple of different aspects come into play in what we offer for him. The first is that we are likely looking to maintain cap flexibility for 2016's free agency period, and the second is that at this stage we are likely looking to either consolidate player assets or time-shift draft assets.

Maintaining cap flexibility in this situation means it may be difficult to come up with a trade which doesn't include Patterson unless you are willing to give up multiple young assets and/or the lower of our two firsts in the trade.

Consolidating or time-shifting our assets suggests that we should actively be considering doing something with the lower of our two first round picks in 2016 as part of this trade, even if it's something as value-neutral as including it and the right for Phoenix to trade first round picks in 2017 for Phoenix's 2018 first-round pick. It might be possible to engineer a consolidation trade for Morris which is also cap-neutral for us based on Bebe and the Toronto 2016 first-rounder, but I expect we'd need to add one more player to make it work salary-wise (and probably to make it more worthwhile for Phoenix). James Johnson/T-Ross would seem to be the most obvious candidates.

Well thought out.

Interesting scenario. Most of the Phoenix media are saying Phoenix should not "fire-sale" Morris - they should wait him out, see how he performs (he's said he'll show up and be professional). If they wait 'til December, even, a lot of additional trade possibilities open up (with recently signed FA's, injuries, disappointments). If I were them, rather sit him, if I had to, than toss him.

So there's clearly a "window" here for the Raps. Markieff isn't supposed to be available. A package has to be such that Phoenix concludes "this package is clearly good enough that we don't have to risk putting ourselves through a lot of tension, distraction and embarrassment". It has to assuage their fan-base, too.

But the pool of bidders will never be smaller than it is now, for this very valuable asset.

So I think you ask yourself - "What would we have given up for this guy July 1st?" I think the answer has to be "a lot". It's our one clear need. And there just aren't very many of these guys. Recall the Aldridge saga. He's not L.A. But he's somebody. That much hasn't changed at all. He's just, oddly, available ... and more motivated to come here, actually

It's a little bit like "found money" to me. You pick it up without hesitation .. hopefully before anyone else notices ... or can react.

(And "Hello" to the 'Peg! )

[Wild-ling#1]

I don't see scenario that 2pat isn't included in the trade.

That's the word on the street. Did you know Markieff took over the starting role in Houston, earlier in their careers, when Patterson was injured? Small world.

[Chr1s1anL]

That's the word on the street. Did you know Markieff took over the starting role in Houston, earlier in their careers, when Patterson was injured? Small world.

That was Marcus. He was drafted by the Rockets. Markieff has played his whole career with PHX