Article: Ujiri Resting Heavily On Maintaining The Status Quo

[Axel]

The moratorium period allows GM's (admittedly under great pressure) to hold meetings with players and contemplate various directions for a team ... simultaneously. Even we will have a lot more information then (about how the team looks generally and how DD, Bruno, T-Ross, JV and Kyle, etc. have performed).

But Masai will have more info than we do. I think he'll know what DD's expectations are going into July. The actual cap number will be out. Masai will know if the Board is willing to go into luxury tax territory, for certain players (short-term, 1st offender). After the playoffs are over, DD may be able to tell Masai if KD is seriously interested in coming here. But I don't think KD will really know until then. And certainly not on what kind of contract with what $/term structure ... and to play with whom

It can be fun to speculate. But the best decisions are typically made on full information. We won't have that info for quite some time. Some are comfortable assuming we have seen the best of DeMar. It's arguable. But they may be wrong.

I think Masai is cultivating a culture of solidarity within his organization, and creating good-will, so as to go into the 2016 and 2017 FA periods with salary range understandings and "good-faith" commitments from key players. That's what San Antonio did with such great results. .... and what Sacramento and Phoenix have not done. The Spurs playoff successes certainly helped - I know that. But that's the idea.

So. There are lots of scenarios possible. Lots. Some involve trading/releasing DeMar. And I think Masai will be prepared to move DeMar if it seems necessary. But I'm pulling for DD and Masai. If it was all about rooting for a winner - I'd just start cheering for somebody else.

Bold 1 - so you don't want to make a plan or even speculate until the time comes? Why bother being on a basketball forum in July/August/Sept if not to speculate? Nothing is happening now, so we can only discuss things with speculation.

Bold 2 - the official cap number actually comes out after most players have made verbal agreements (during the moratorium), so most of the big deals are agreed upon without the final cap numbers. The final numbers get figured out well after it is known that the player will sign for x yrs at $ x.

Bold 3 - why would it be DD to get in the inside scoop from KD? Why not KL? or DC? Or most likely, Drake.

Bold 4 - yet you are not participating and choosing instead to poke holes in people's posts without offering any justification or reasoning. Arguing the meaning of the word "logical" doesn't really add to the conversation.

CalRapsFan has a great post earlier in another thread that I think applies here.

The bold is the key, especially because moves would need to be made to free up cap space before a deal is reached. Once other teams are aware that KD has chosen the Raptors, do you really think they'd make trades that allow the Raps to clear the necessary space (ie: no guaranteed money back), without absolutely robbing MU of assets (ie: top tier prospects and 1st round picks)? Not a chance.

Some people seem to have the delusion that the Raptors can keep every player and maintain all their rights, right up until KD is ready to sign on the dotted line, then they can unload half the under-contract roster (ie: Lowry, Joseph, Patterson, Biyombo, etc...) into other teams' cap space. In reality, the Raptors would need to dump salary ahead of time, in the hopes of being able to sign KD, or else other teams would either hold them hostage or outright prevent them from being able to sign KD.

That's just another reason why DD is a much more viable option, as an avenue for clearing the necessary cap space; no trade required.

Masai and DD can have all the side conversations and good faith in the world, but if Masai is chasing KD, then leaving DD out to hang is the best possible way. If KD agrees to sign during the moratorium, then Masai can renounce DD at the end of the period. So it's not like Masai needs to commit to renouncing DD before getting a sit down and verbal agreement from KD. If KD wants to take more time to decide and that goes past the moratorium, then maybe Masai has to make the call if DD is getting offers/jumpy. All the good will built up means that DD is more likely to wait and see what happens than bolt before Masai knows what KD is doing.

[Wild-ling#1]

I was trying to be nice when I stated there was a most logical way to do this deal, I know there is only logical and illogical, your way is entirely, completely and utterly illogical, improbably, and entirely moronic. Better? ....

Bold 1 - so you don't want to make a plan or even speculate until the time comes? Why bother being on a basketball forum in July/August/Sept if not ...? ....
Bold 2 - the official cap number actually comes out after most players have made verbal agreements (during the moratorium), so most of the big deals are agreed upon without the final cap numbers.
Bold 3 - why would it be DD to get in the inside scoop from KD? Why not KL? or DC? Or most likely, Drake.

Bold 4 - yet you are not participating and choosing instead to poke holes in people's posts without offering any justification or reasoning. Arguing the meaning of the word "logical" doesn't really add to the conversation.

CalRapsFan has a great post earlier in another thread that I think applies here.

"Some people seem to have the delusion that the Raptors can keep every player and maintain all their rights, right up until KD is ready to sign on the dotted line, then they can unload half the under-contract roster. .... In reality, the Raptors would need to dump salary ahead of time, in the hopes of being able to sign KD, or else other teams would either hold them hostage or outright prevent them from being able to sign KD.

That's just another reason why DD is a much more viable option, as an avenue for clearing the necessary cap space; no trade required."

All the good will built up means that DD is more likely to wait and see what happens than bolt before Masai knows what KD is doing.

I'm not sure anyone can feel they've really done their best to take DeMar's side until Snooch has called them a "moron" (or some such.)

It doesn't really matter who Masai hears from on the KD issue ... so long as he hears about it, right? Knowledge is power.

Holding on to the rights of players until you've landed your big FA is what the Spurs did ... and what Sacramento didn't do. That's how we got CoJo for nothing (of course). KD may not even come here unless he can play with certain players. But we don't know who they are ... or if he'll come at all. But Masai may not care at all if he loses trade value on some assets if he's landed KD. (But big if). And maybe the Board gives him one-time luxury-tax permission, to hold on to prospects and bench pieces, until the the cap goes up again in 2017. That's where the Cavs are, right? Or maybe DD and KD sign for one year, and "sculpt " their demands, to maximize value in 2017 (like LeBron has).

See - speculations!

... Fun to talk about, as I said (you seemed not to notice that bit). But you can only do so much, so far out. Meteorologists will call the weather two days ahead ... and are still wrong, sometimes! Seven days is as far as they'll generally go. Do you guys really want me to call the weather for a particular date next July?

(Some sun. Hopefully some rain. And clouds ... some of those, too ...

Still, that's ok if you can admit that it's rather wildly speculative. But can you?

[Snooch]

Bold 1 - so you don't want to make a plan or even speculate until the time comes? Why bother being on a basketball forum in July/August/Sept if not to speculate? Nothing is happening now, so we can only discuss things with speculation.

Bold 2 - the official cap number actually comes out after most players have made verbal agreements (during the moratorium), so most of the big deals are agreed upon without the final cap numbers. The final numbers get figured out well after it is known that the player will sign for x yrs at $ x.

Bold 3 - why would it be DD to get in the inside scoop from KD? Why not KL? or DC? Or most likely, Drake.

Bold 4 - yet you are not participating and choosing instead to poke holes in people's posts without offering any justification or reasoning. Arguing the meaning of the word "logical" doesn't really add to the conversation.

CalRapsFan has a great post earlier in another thread that I think applies here.



Masai and DD can have all the side conversations and good faith in the world, but if Masai is chasing KD, then leaving DD out to hang is the best possible way. If KD agrees to sign during the moratorium, then Masai can renounce DD at the end of the period. So it's not like Masai needs to commit to renouncing DD before getting a sit down and verbal agreement from KD. If KD wants to take more time to decide and that goes past the moratorium, then maybe Masai has to make the call if DD is getting offers/jumpy. All the good will built up means that DD is more likely to wait and see what happens than bolt before Masai knows what KD is doing.

Great post

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[Snooch]

I'm not sure anyone can feel they've really done their best to take DeMar's side until Snooch has called them a "moron" (or some such.)

It doesn't really matter who Masai hears from on the KD issue ... so long as he hears about it, right? Knowledge is power.

Holding on to the rights of players until you've landed your big FA is what the Spurs did ... and what Sacramento didn't do. That's how we got CoJo for nothing (of course). KD may not even come here unless he can play with certain players. But we don't know who they are ... or if he'll come at all. But Masai may not care at all if he loses trade value on some assets if he's landed KD. (But big if). And maybe the Board gives him one-time luxury-tax permission, to hold on to prospects and bench pieces, until the the cap goes up again in 2017. That's where the Cavs are, right? Or maybe DD and KD sign for one year, and "sculpt " their demands, to maximize value in 2017 (like LeBron has).

See - speculations!

... Fun to talk about, as I said (you seemed not to notice that bit). But you can only do so much, so far out. Meteorologists will call the weather two days ahead ... and are still wrong, sometimes! Seven days is as far as they'll generally go. Do you guys really want me to call the weather for a particular date next July?

(Some sun. Hopefully some rain. And clouds ... some of those, too ...

Still, that's ok if you can admit that it's rather wildly speculative. But can you?

All of the apeculations you just posted are either not possible under the cba, or predicated on kd/demar talking less than 10 million each for one year. And that is pretty oit there.

And i never called you a moron, i originally stated that your idea was less logical, but then u argued about my use of the term, so then i called your idea moronic.

Again, i did not call u the person a moron.



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[Wild-ling#1]

And i never called you a moron, i originally stated that your idea was less logical, but then u argued about my use of the term, so then i called your idea moronic.

Again, i did not call u the person a moron.
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A fine distinction. But not to worry - I suspect you might be covered under the "Snooch, 'ho-holds-barred' exemption".

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not sure anyone can feel they've really done their best to take DeMar's side until Snooch has called them a "moron" (or some such.)

It doesn't really matter who Masai hears from on the KD issue ... so long as he hears about it, right? Knowledge is power.

Holding on to the rights of players until you've landed your big FA is what the Spurs did ... and what Sacramento didn't do. That's how we got CoJo for nothing (of course). KD may not even come here unless he can play with certain players. But we don't know who they are ... or if he'll come at all. But Masai may not care at all if he loses trade value on some assets if he's landed KD. (But big if). And maybe the Board gives him one-time luxury-tax permission, to hold on to prospects and bench pieces, until the the cap goes up again in 2017. That's where the Cavs are, right? Or maybe DD and KD sign for one year, and "sculpt " their demands, to maximize value in 2017 (like LeBron has).

See - speculations!

... Fun to talk about, as I said (you seemed not to notice that bit). But you can only do so much, so far out. Meteorologists will call the weather two days ahead ... and are still wrong, sometimes! Seven days is as far as they'll generally go. Do you guys really want me to call the weather for a particular date next July?

(Some sun. Hopefully some rain. And clouds ... some of those, too ...

Still, that's ok if you can admit that it's rather wildly speculative. But can you?

The best speculation is that which is grounded in reality.

Your third paragraph where you did your most basketball-related speculating is entirely impossible.

You need uneven trades, Bird Rights, and exceptions to extend beyond the salary cap. You can't keep all rights to free agents AND sign Durant AND then extend your own free agents.

Something has to give and what has been posted numerous times is the choice is to gut your team or let DD walk whereby you replace him with a more efficient and better overall player in every way imaginable while keeping the rest of the team intact.

[mcHAPPY]

A fine distinction. But not to worry - I suspect you might be covered under the "Snooch, 'ho-holds-barred' exemption".

I think he is covered under the "Wild-ling-keeps-dancing-around-the-relevent-topics exemption"

[Wild-ling#1]

Yes - you absolutely should try to blame me for someone else calling my ideas "moronic". Just stands to reason!

[Wild-ling#1]

The best speculation is that which is grounded in reality.

Your third paragraph where you did your most basketball-related speculating is entirely impossible.

You need uneven trades, Bird Rights, and exceptions to extend beyond the salary cap. You can't keep all rights to free agents AND sign Durant AND then extend your own free agents.

Something has to give and what has been posted numerous times is the choice is to gut your team or let DD walk whereby you replace him with a more efficient and better overall player in every way imaginable while keeping the rest of the team intact.

My 3rd paragraph is entirely impossible? We can certainly hold on to DD until we find out if KD is coming, no?

If he's interested, the parties discuss who needs to stay to lure him here. That might mean DD.

But I didn't suggest we could sign KD and keep DD and extend all our free agents. I just pointed out that the Spurs made a number of moves after they had landed LaMarcus. They renounced CoJo. People signed (and re-signed) great deals after they had won the LaMarcus sweepstakes - not as big a surprise, right?

What if Bebe and Bismack kick ass this season? And JV stalls. JV doesn't have a no-trade. KD might rather play with DD, KL, DC than JV, KL and DC. T-Ross, Scola, Patterson can go. There are other ways this could happen, is my point.

And are you saying there's no way - no scenario - in which Masai couldn't use luxury-tax dollars to help get KD here (if he had them)?

[Snooch]

Yes - you absolutely should try to blame me for someone else calling my ideas "moronic". Just stands to reason!

Actually, I originally called your post less logical, to which you complained was improper use of the word illogical

so then I posted that I could have said that it was something somethin moronic.

So to sum up, I didnt originally call your post moronic, But then when you kept trying to poke little holes in my debate I stated that I could have called it moronic.

And to my understanding of the rules, I am withing my rights to do so.

[Snooch]

My 3rd paragraph is entirely impossible? We can certainly hold on to DD until we find out if KD is coming, no?

If he's interested, the parties discuss who needs to stay to lure him here. That might mean DD.

But I didn't suggest we could sign KD and keep DD and extend all our free agents. I just pointed out that the Spurs made a number of moves after they had landed LaMarcus. They renounced CoJo. People signed (and re-signed) great deals after they had won the LaMarcus sweepstakes - not as big a surprise, right?

What if Bebe and Bismack kick ass this season? And JV stalls. JV doesn't have a no-trade. KD might rather play with DD, KL, DC than JV, KL and DC. T-Ross, Scola, Patterson can go. There are other ways this could happen, is my point.

And are you saying there's no way - no scenario - in which Masai couldn't use luxury-tax dollars to help get KD here (if he had them)?

Take the blinders off, boys! And let KD have a say ... and then consider.

to put an end to this nonsensical debate.(since you have now changed the goalposts of it)

Sure. it is entirely possible that the Raps can wait until they have a commitment from KD before either releasing demar, or somehow finding a trade for multiple multiple players and recieve absolutely nothing back in terms of salary in order to accommodate the signing.

Now,

to move the goalposts back to where it all started......

Sitting idly by reduces the opportunity to be able to trade contract for capspace
Sitting idly by increases the risk of having to add future assets to the dropping of those contracts
Sitting idly by and not making a decision on demar while courting KD shows a lack of decision by management as to direction


KD would never choose to play on an incomplete team such as you are suggesting in relation to DD/DC/KL as there would only be Ppat and Bebe and Biyombo under contract in the front court and NO MONEY, or as you suggest Ppat gone...so a possible draft pick, Biyombo and Bebe.....that is miles away from a championship frontcourt.

But yes there are lots of ways that it coul;d all play out. But all but one of those ways are not good, bad, illogical, etc.

[Axel]

And are you saying there's no way - no scenario - in which Masai couldn't use luxury-tax dollars to help get KD here (if he had them)?

In what way can we use luxury tax to acquire KD?

[mcHAPPY]

My 3rd paragraph is entirely impossible? We can certainly hold on to DD until we find out if KD is coming, no?

If he's interested, the parties discuss who needs to stay to lure him here. That might mean DD.

But I didn't suggest we could sign KD and keep DD and extend all our free agents. I just pointed out that the Spurs made a number of moves after they had landed LaMarcus. They renounced CoJo. People signed (and re-signed) great deals after they had won the LaMarcus sweepstakes - not as big a surprise, right?

What if Bebe and Bismack kick ass this season? And JV stalls. JV doesn't have a no-trade. KD might rather play with DD, KL, DC than JV, KL and DC. T-Ross, Scola, Patterson can go. There are other ways this could happen, is my point.

And are you saying there's no way - no scenario - in which Masai couldn't use luxury-tax dollars to help get KD here (if he had them)?

*Yawn*

You know, I am a stubborn person but I even admit when I'm wrong. I've done it once or twice on these very forums. But there is no point in engaging in a conversation with you. You pick and choose the comments you wish to address.quite frequently discarding the rubbish as if it was never typed, continuing along with the conversation as if you have all the answers - correct/grounded in reality or not be damned.

It is very tiring and times like this I wonder why I bother. I should have known better. Good day.

[Wild-ling#1]

You called my ideas "entirely moronic", Snooch. In writing. Above. Maybe it shouldn't be there ... but it is.

[Wild-ling#1]

In what way can we use luxury tax to acquire KD?

Do you mean you don't know? Or are you saying it can't be done?

Can we not sign KD and then go into the luxury tax to extend DeMar?