Syrian Crisis in One Picture (Warning: Very Sad)

[Apollo]

Were they security-check experts?

No, they were people who had well thought out questions and concerns. They articulated those concerns well on live radio and the politician they had on there, I forget her name, basically could only come up with "if Trudeau thinks it's unsafe based on what his advisers tell him then he will back off the deadline"; or so she believed. I'm not saying he's going to do anything to jeopardize Canadians but there's always a chance of intel being wrong. More time spent on investigating backgrounds is always better.

Common sense questions don't require a specialized certificate or long federal government work history. Who they(the callers) were was very important to my post however because if you measure the pulse I think you see that Canadians in general appear to be concerned with the timeline. That matters. Canada can be world leaders in humanitarianism without winning a sprint.

I don't think anyone with common sense would knock the Prime Minister for delaying the timetable on this campaign promise. If someone flies through under the radar as a refugee and murders a group of people like what happened in Paris however, that is different, isn't it? There's no shame in the Prime Minister indirectly admitting he underestimated the timeline and it probably wouldn't matter because he's at the beginning of a term and he has a majority.

Just as with twitter/social media I dont believe talk radio is the best place to understand the core of the matter. As Calgary mayor Nenshi recently said...please study the entry requirements and vetting performed by Canada before making quick judgements. My understanding is that the refugees coming to Canada are from refugee camps in Turkey & Jordan and have been there for years possibly and have already been processed by multiple agencies.

It is understandable to be concerned but only after due consideration of the facts surrounding the action.

We're talking politics, public perception is always important. Every one of those people should be investigated on the same level as any other refugee that's come through here. My understanding of the general sense based on what I read from Canadians expressing views on the matters is that the fear is this will be too rushed and perhaps the same level of security won't be administered because of the magnitude of refugees showing up at the same time. I'm playing devils advocate here.

[Nilanka]

Saw this on social media. Haven't checked the sources myself:

1. Refugees coming to Canada will undergo three separate screening processes.

First, they are selected from those screened by the United Nations High Commission on Refugees. The UNHCR uses sophisticated anti-fraud tools like biometrics.

Second, they are interviewed before coming to Canada.

Third, once in Canada, they are screened by Canada's security services.

Thanks to these precautions, security experts say the chances of an ISIS terrorist getting through are infinitesimal.

2. Canada is prioritizing families (particularly female-headed households), unaccompanied minors and the sick, not single individuals.

These groups were selected because they pose the least risk of radicalization.

3. Not accepting refugees is an even greater threat to national security.

According to leading experts in national security, terrorism, radicalization and intelligence like Munk School of Public Affairs Prof. Wesley Wark and Georgetown University Prof. Anne Speckhard, filthy and unsafe refugee camps are hotbeds for extremism.

Perhaps not surprisingly, terrorists find it remarkably easy to recruit fighters in squalid and hopeless camps teeming with desperate and disenfranchised people.

According to Prof. Speckhard: “Experience from many conflict zones teaches us that the longer these refugees are left to languish in despair in camps the more prone they become to radicalization.”

4. Accepting refugees strikes a blow at ISIS.

ISIS relies on extortion and the taxes they collect from the vast swaths of territory they control. “They want to stop the refugee process because one of their main sources of income in the ISIS-controlled territory is taxation of the people there, extortion of the people there," according to University of Ottawa law professor Errol Mendes.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2342471/sh...xperts-say-no/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/29...l?referer&_r=1

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/trudeau-w...gees-1.2662486

[Apollo]

On the last page or the page before I posted an expert's comments in describing the screening process. I am aware of what they do. I think many people are aware of this, it's not top secret.

I think the problem people face is with the window and the volume. Anyone with project management experience will tell you that for your project to succeed you need to watch your scope, time and resources. Do the security people have the resources to deliver on time with the current scope? How long does it take to investigate and process one refugee on average? How many case workers do they employ to process these 25,000 people showing up all at once? How is the process different than France's methods? These are fair questions which could dispel any doubts if they were addressed properly.

Again, the question really isn't if, it's when. That's what seems to be challenged.

[mcHAPPY]

Well, thank fuck the Russians are here to explain how the world works to everyone. I mean, they've done such a bang up job recently in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Ukraine, Syria, the ex-Soviet bloc. Isn't it about time they started starving their own people again over there? Or is that on the agenda for the 2020s?

Your attitude is the very root of the probelm.

The West, including US and Canada, are not in position to judge others.

In the face of civil uprising do you really think the U.S. or Canada would have a different response than Russia did?

You view the situation from a position of moral authority.

The things Russia has done have been in their own self interests same with the weSt and the U.S. in particular.

There is a double standard which you clearly exemplify by going on a tirade of their history rather than focusing on the actual issue. Such a shame. You seem smarter than that.

No different than any discussion in U.S. where inevitably comes back to republican vs democrat insults with one group taking a position of moral authority over the other.

Bloody noise and a waste of time that has allowed the real issues to go on ignored for so long. The real issue of decades of foreign intervention is hopefully coming full circle and won't continue to be hidden.

[Bendit]

Saw this on social media. Haven't checked the sources myself:



http://globalnews.ca/news/2342471/sh...xperts-say-no/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/29...l?referer&_r=1

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/trudeau-w...gees-1.2662486

I dont think it's as much about "brown people" as it's about their religion. In the US there is a collective pov that it would be preferential to have the religion litmus test (christians only) to accept Syrian refugees.

[Nilanka]

I dont think it's as much about "brown people" as it's about their religion. In the US there is a collective pov that it would be preferential to have the religion litmus test (christians only) to accept Syrian refugees.

Yup, I deleted that sentence. Didn't mean to copy that. Don't find it relevant.

[mcHAPPY]

I think we can agree that it's not "all" on religion. You've listed the many geo-political reasons that allow groups like ISIS to flourish. But let's not minimize the impact religious doctrine has to play:

No question religion plays a part.

Religion has always attracted lost souls as it provides purpose. Very easy for 'religious' leaders to prey on that.

My contention is western intervention has created the environment for extremism to flourish. They have created an enemy in themselves.

[slaw]

Your attitude is the very root of the probelm.

The West, including US and Canada, are not in position to judge others.

In the face of civil uprising do you really think the U.S. or Canada would have a different response than Russia did?

You view the situation from a position of moral authority.

The things Russia has done have been in their own self interests same with the weSt and the U.S. in particular.

There is a double standard which you clearly exemplify by going on a tirade of their history rather than focusing on the actual issue. Such a shame. You seem smarter than that.

No different than any discussion in U.S. where inevitably comes back to republican vs democrat insults with one group taking a position of moral authority over the other.

Bloody noise and a waste of time that has allowed the real issues to go on ignored for so long. The real issue of decades of foreign intervention is hopefully coming full circle and won't continue to be hidden.

We are absolutely in a position to judge others. Western Civilization has brought humanity the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Industrial Revolution, and concepts of democracy, equality, liberty and freedom that have changed the world. We ended the slave trade and piracy, and expended enormous amounts of blood and treasure to do so (practices still routine in those cultures we aren't supposed to judge). We have eradicated diseases that wiped out swaths of mankind and visited the moon.

Is Western Civilization perfect? No. Have the Europeans and Americans made mistakes? Of course. But spare me your false moral equivalence between the West's imperfections and a bunch of barbarians drowning prisoners in cages, lighting people on fire, starving people to death and raping little girls for fun and profit. When Justin Trudeau orders all Torys to be put in cages and lit on fire, then we can take about not judging....

[mcHAPPY]

We are absolutely in a position to judge others. Western Civilization has brought humanity the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Industrial Revolution, and concepts of democracy, equality, liberty and freedom that have changed the world. We ended the slave trade and piracy, and expended enormous amounts of blood and treasure to do so (practices still routine in those cultures we aren't supposed to judge). We have eradicated diseases that wiped out swaths of mankind and visited the moon.

Is Western Civilization perfect? No. Have the Europeans and Americans made mistakes? Of course. But spare me your false moral equivalence between the West's imperfections and a bunch of barbarians drowning prisoners in cages, lighting people on fire, starving people to death and raping little girls for fun and profit. When Justin Trudeau orders all Torys to be put in cages and lit on fire, then we can take about not judging....

Wow.

Just wow.


The only difference between their barbarism and the west is the west denies it until it has no choice but for admit.


And through all that superiority garbage you ignore that countries such as Afghanistan were very much progressive societies until they became pawns in a global power struggle resulting in weapons and money being given to the barbaric groups that are wreaking havoc today.

The radicals were well under control under the west decided to go liberating.


But to your post - wow.

[Uncle_Si]

I dont think it's as much about "brown people" as it's about their religion. In the US there is a collective pov that it would be preferential to have the religion litmus test (christians only) to accept Syrian refugees.

There are some rational reasons for that. First, there are many different sects of Muslims and the US does not know enough about them to be able to accurately pick out the terrorists. The idea behind bringing over Christians is that 1) they're being slaughtered and targeted for their religion. 2) currently only 4% of the refugees coming over are Christians even though they are the main ones being persecuted. 3) Christians aren't the ones joining Isis, so although there may be some isis members trying to disguise as Christians it would be a lot easier to pick them out.

Also, religious persecution is a a consideration in refugee asylum.

This whole notion of babies and women and children being the ones that are fleeing is nonsense. It's nearly 70% males between the ages of 18-40. These cowards should be in Syria fighting to protect their motherland!

So, given the amount of refugees Obama wants to bring in, targeting Christians actually makes a lot of sense, but then again, they're only Christians so who cares they're being crucified and beheaded.

Last point, it's amazing how hard Christians get hammered for their stance on gay marriage when Islam doesn't allow it either! And many Muslim countries actually stone and jail gay people. (But shhhhhhh don't talk about that!)

[mcHAPPY]

There are some rational reasons for that. First, there are many different sects of Muslims and the US does not know enough about them to be able to accurately pick out the terrorists. The idea behind bringing over Christians is that 1) they're being slaughtered and targeted for their religion. 2) currently only 4% of the refugees coming over are Christians even though they are the main ones being persecuted. 3) Christians aren't the ones joining Isis, so although there may be some isis members trying to disguise as Christians it would be a lot easier to pick them out.

Also, religious persecution is a a consideration in refugee asylum.

This whole notion of babies and women and children being the ones that are fleeing is nonsense. It's nearly 70% males between the ages of 18-40. These cowards should be in Syria fighting to protect their motherland!

So, given the amount of refugees Obama wants to bring in, targeting Christians actually makes a lot of sense, but then again, they're only Christians so who cares they're being crucified and beheaded.

Last point, it's amazing how hard Christians get hammered for their stance on gay marriage when Islam doesn't allow it either! And many Muslim countries actually stone and jail gay people. (But shhhhhhh don't talk about that!)

To follow your points at the end....

The hypocrisy of the west in having Saudi Arabia as an ally is mind blowing.

They make ISIS look relatively kitten like.

Never mind the fact their finger prints are all over 9/11.

[slaw]

The only difference between their barbarism and the west is the west denies it until it has no choice but for admit.

Wow. Just wow. I mean. Wow. Wowzers. Wowzerino.

[mcHAPPY]

Wow. Just wow. I mean. Wow. Wowzers. Wowzerino.

Yes I hear Guantanamo Bay is a deluxe five star resort featuring wonderful spa treatments.

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not sure why the racist and bigotry comment was deleted.

That is exactly what is being pushed here.

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"


rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

[Uncle_Si]

Wow.

You're a racist and bigot too?

Shame.

Yup. Biggest racist and bigot you'll ever meet.

That's code word for conservative right?

This anti-west narrative is absurd. Go live in one of the hell holes you think is so much more noble and righteous than us. We're going into debt giving money to poorer countries, we reach out and form trade deals with developing countries to try to guide them out of poverty. And yeah, there are some fucked up people that do some fcked up things along the way, but by and large the west is good.

And yes there are things we could do better and yes mistakes were made in the past. But they were made with good intentions. Of course in hindsight people can look back and say something was a mistake. Iraq for example was supported by Dems and republicans, if you asked today, I'm sure you'd find a large number from both side that would have said they'd vote against it.

At least you have the freedom to spout your hatred here, you try that in most countries in the east and you'll find yourself in jail or dead.