Syrian Crisis in One Picture (Warning: Very Sad)

[Uncle_Si]

Donald Trump Would 'Absolutely' Create Database To Track Muslims
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11...n_8608644.html

As a non-Muslim who would be not effected in any way. I fully support this.

I just want to see rioting in the street and the first stages of a concentration camp around Christmas

He didn't say it, it's bullshit. Watch the whole video. It's so dumb, the reporter tries to bait him into it and Trump brushes him off and starts talking about illegal immigration. The reporter keeps pressing about a Muslim database and trump glancingly responds but is more focused on illegal immigration.

I'm saying this, and I HATE Trump. He'll destroy himself, no need to push out of context crap on him.

[raptors999]

He didn't say it, it's bullshit. Watch the whole video. It's so dumb, the reporter tries to bait him into it and Trump brushes him off and starts talking about illegal immigration. The reporter keeps pressing about a Muslim database and trump glancingly responds but is more focused on illegal immigration.

I'm saying this, and I HATE Trump. He'll destroy himself, no need to push out of context crap on him.

Still in favor of a mandatory Facebook for Muslims.

[mcHAPPY]

First bold: What point? How do you know that all those people would have passed the refugee entrance program tests. Were any of them even Syrians? Conflation #1.

Second bold: Safe zones in Syria? And how do you propose to set those up under current conditions? The safe zones now exist in Turkey & Jordan and have been for a few years now. Tha'ts where the refugee claimants are coming from after having gone thru some of the initial vetting. These camps have been open for about 4 years (2011) now..the Turkey one at least. So vetting could have begun in 2012. Similar Palestinian camps have been around for 60 years. How is that working out?

Third bold: And what stance would that be? Are you talking amnesty of Latinos, dealing with refugees pre Paris, dealing with refugees post Paris, amnesty for Cubans, numbers of immigrants, euro vs. coloured, immigrants based on demographics...what stance? Conflation #2.

What I see is a humane approach to most of his policies. The disagreements I have is his use of drones in an indiscriminate manner and NSA surveillance (not in compliance with the law) of citizenry. These are of course operational matters that even as president cannot possibly be on top of in a war. The military industrial complex rules.

That canard about Obama wanting to transform the US is a joke. It began with the birther bs of him being born in Kenya. Then it progressed to him being indoctrinated by his father who had a soft spot for Marxism but had long left his family before Barack even got to pre-puberty age I believe. And they couldnt find a whiff of scandal to boot

But what I really suspect is that it bugs the fuck out of especially the southern members of the tribe that he is a black man, comfortable in his skin, debates them into the ground, won 2 elections and brought his country back from the disaster it was when he took over from their man Bush. They just cannot stand him...black, progressive and making sense...triple whammy.

I hated Bush.

I was so excited when Obama came into office.

But your statement there is totally false.

He continued and in fact double downed on Bush foreign policy.

He continued and in fact double downed on infringements of personal privacy.

He continued and double downed on economic policies.

The recovery in the stock market has been on the back of the greatest accounting fraud, stock buy backs, and market manipulation via HFT the world has ever seen.

The recovery for the average American is non existent.

The number of people in the work force is at late 1970s levels - it is amazing what happens to the unemployment rate when you exclude people who have given up hope.

Much of the economic improvement in GDP is in healthcare which through Obamacare has proven to be an epic failure as insurance premiums and deductibles are soaring. People have health coverage but they still can't afford to get sick.


I never would have believed it but things are worse today than when Bush left office. Very sad and very true, in my opinion.


Obama

[mcHAPPY]

“George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more,” read a 2003 article on The Onion a week after then-President George Bush launched the Iraq War. While a wide variety of organizations and individuals also rebuked that invasion, the satirical newspaper offered one of the most accurate assessments to date. So accurate, in fact, it all but predicted the rise of the Islamic State.

In the mock-debate piece, entitled, “This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t,” The Onion highlighted the very real risks of war.

As fictional debater Nathan Eckert warned:

“This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher. It will not end the threat of weapons of mass destruction; it will make possible their further proliferation. And it will not lay the groundwork for the flourishing of democracy throughout the Mideast; it will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence.”

He continued:

“If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause. From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom.”

More than a decade into the chronic conflict, the Onion’s projects are eerily—albeit predictably—accurate. By 2006, national security experts were warning the war was inspiring further radicalism. One of the Boston Marathon bombers was radicalized by the Iraq War. The Charlie Hebdo shooters were also radicalized by Western intervention in the Middle East.

As the Guardian pointed out earlier this year, “there was no al-Qaida in Iraq until the US and Britain invaded. And the US has certainly exploited the existence of Isis against other forces in the region as part of a wider drive to maintain Western control.”

The Onion article poked fun at empty rebuttals many proponents of war offered at the time.

“Why do you keep saying these things? I can tell when there’s trouble looming, and I really don’t sense that right now. We’re in control of this situation, and we know what we’re doing. So stop being so pessimistic,” wrote the fictional opposing debater, Bob Sheffer.

But the United States was not in control—and the pessimism (read: realism) was warranted. The Islamic State has thrived not only because of radical Islam, but because of resentment sparked by American intervention. A recent report by The Nation details interviews the author conducted with imprisoned Islamic State fighters. Journalist Lydia Wilson explained that while most people in the West believe the Islamic State is rooted solely in religion, it has attracted fighters for other reasons:

“They are children of the occupation, many with missing fathers at crucial periods (through jail, death from execution, or fighting in the insurgency), filled with rage against America and their own government. They are not fueled by the idea of an Islamic caliphate without borders; rather, ISIS is the first group since the crushed Al Qaeda to offer these humiliated and enraged young men a way to defend their dignity, family, and tribe,” she wrote.

As Eckert opined in The Onion over 12 years ago:

“Is our arrogance and hubris so great that we actually believe that a U.S. provisional military regime will be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people? Democracy cannot possibly thrive under coercion. To take over a country and impose one’s own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy. And it is doomed to fail.”


Just as proponents of war today dismiss long-term risks of continued intervention, the fictional Sheffer downplayed any negative consequences:

“No it won’t. It just won’t. None of that will happen,” he replied to Eckert.

“You’re getting worked up over nothing. Everything is going to be fine. So just relax okay? You’re really overreacting.”

This is not the first Onion piece to foreshadow real world events. Earlier this year, a satirical article published on the site predicted the United States would offer weapons to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to placate him following Obama’s progress on the United States’ nuclear deal with Iran.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...-all-back-2003

What does it say to the credibility of mainstream media when satire delivers more accurate truth?

[mcHAPPY]

What I Discovered From Interviewing Imprisoned ISIS Fighters


They’re drawn to the movement for reasons that have little to do with belief in extremist Islam.

Many assume that these fighters are motivated by a belief in the Islamic State, a caliphate ruled by a caliph with the traditional title Emir al-Muminiin, “Commander of the faithful,” a role currently held by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi; that fighters all over the world are flocking to the area for a chance to fight for this dream. But this just doesn’t hold for the prisoners we are interviewing. They are woefully ignorant about Islam and have difficulty answering questions about Sharia law, militant jihad, and the caliphate. But a detailed, or even superficial, knowledge of Islam isn’t necessarily relevant to the ideal of fighting for an Islamic State, as we have seen from the Amazon order of Islam for Dummies by one British fighter bound for ISIS.

In fact, Erin Saltman, senior counter-extremism researcher at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, says that there is now less emphasis on knowledge of Islam in the recruitment phase. “We are seeing a movement away from strict religious ideological training as a requirement for recruitment,” she told me. “If we were looking at foreign fighter recruits to Afghanistan 10 or 20 years ago, there was intensive religious and theological training attached to recruitment. Nowadays, we see that recruitment strategy has branched out to a much broader audience with many different pull factors.”

There is no question that these prisoners I am interviewing are committed to Islam; it is just their own brand of Islam, only distantly related to that of the Islamic State. Similarly, Western fighters traveling to the Islamic State are also deeply committed, but it’s to their own idea of jihad rather than one based on sound theological arguments or even evidence from the Qur’an. As Saltman said, “Recruitment [of ISIS] plays upon desires of adventure, activism, romance, power, belonging, along with spiritual fulfillment.” That is, Islam plays a part, but not necessarily in the rigid, Salafi form demanded by the leadership of the Islamic State.

This was along the lines of the point I was trying to make.

More pertinent than Islamic theology is that there are other, much more convincing, explanations as to why they’ve fought for the side they did. At the end of the interview with the first prisoner we ask, “Do you have any questions for us?” For the first time since he came into the room he smiles—in surprise—and finally tells us what really motivated him, without any prompting. He knows there is an American in the room, and can perhaps guess, from his demeanor and his questions, that this American is ex-military, and directs his “question,” in the form of an enraged statement, straight at him. “The Americans came,” he said. “They took away Saddam, but they also took away our security. I didn’t like Saddam, we were starving then, but at least we didn’t have war. When you came here, the civil war started.”

Another point I was trying to make: Saddam, Gaddahfi, Assad - all assholes and horrible people. But they kept the extremists in check. The people were much better off before intervention that, despite claims of humanitarian relief, was all about energy and its control.

This whole experience has been very familiar indeed to Doug Stone, the American general on the receiving end of this diatribe. “He fits the absolutely typical profile,” Stone said afterward. “The average age of all the prisoners in Iraq when I was here was 27; they were married; they had two children; had got to sixth to eighth grade. He has exactly the same profile as 80 percent of the prisoners then…and his number-one complaint about the security and against all American forces was the exact same complaint from every single detainee.”

These boys came of age under the disastrous American occupation after 2003, in the chaotic and violent Arab part of Iraq, ruled by the viciously sectarian Shia government of Nouri al-Maliki. Growing up Sunni Arab was no fun. A later interviewee described his life growing up under American occupation: He couldn’t go out, he didn’t have a life, and he specifically mentioned that he didn’t have girlfriends. An Islamic State fighter’s biggest resentment was the lack of an adolescence. Another of the interviewees was displaced at the critical age of 13, when his family fled to Kirkuk from Diyala province at the height of Iraq’s sectarian civil war. They are children of the occupation, many with missing fathers at crucial periods (through jail, death from execution, or fighting in the insurgency), filled with rage against America and their own government. They are not fueled by the idea of an Islamic caliphate without borders; rather, ISIS is the first group since the crushed Al Qaeda to offer these humiliated and enraged young men a way to defend their dignity, family, and tribe. This is not radicalization to the ISIS way of life, but the promise of a way out of their insecure and undignified lives; the promise of living in pride as Iraqi Sunni Arabs, which is not just a religious identity but cultural, tribal, and land-based, too.

Many of these people have been fucked over since they were very young. They are angry. The United States has given the extremist crazies all they need to recruit just by being there for the last 13 years.

An illustration of the less-than-total commitment to the cause of the Islamic State by Iraqis came from the Kurdish peshmerga Gen. Aziz Waysi, commander of the elite Zerevani (“Golden”) forces. He relates an overheard conversation between an ISIS fighter on the battleground and his leader, via a walkie-talkie previously confiscated from an ISIS corpse. “My brother is with me, but he is dead, and we are surrounded, we need help at least to take away my brother’s body,” General Waysi heard, and then the reply: “What else could you want? Your brother is in heaven and you are about to be.” This answer wasn’t what the poor surrounded young man was hoping for. “Please come and rescue me,” he said, “That heaven, I don’t want it.” But they didn’t, leaving him to whatever paradise awaited.

http://www.thenation.com/article/wha...sis-prisoners/

[Bendit]

I hated Bush.

I was so excited when Obama came into office.

But your statement there is totally false.

He continued and in fact double downed on Bush foreign policy.

He continued and in fact double downed on infringements of personal privacy.

He continued and double downed on economic policies.

The recovery in the stock market has been on the back of the greatest accounting fraud, stock buy backs, and market manipulation via HFT the world has ever seen.

The recovery for the average American is non existent.

The number of people in the work force is at late 1970s levels - it is amazing what happens to the unemployment rate when you exclude people who have given up hope.

Much of the economic improvement in GDP is in healthcare which through Obamacare has proven to be an epic failure as insurance premiums and deductibles are soaring. People have health coverage but they still can't afford to get sick.


I never would have believed it but things are worse today than when Bush left office. Very sad and very true, in my opinion.


Obama

I'd just like to put my replies in context.

Obama as any president is not perfect. Another context....consider what he inherited in 2008 both economically, socially (he was the first black pres,) and the wars.

I as well re GWB.

I as well re Obama's election.

Re my "false" statement. Unprovable of course but I have been following that scene for a long time now and have immediate family who live in the US (mid) and are of the conservative persuasion. I have also lived there. So I believe I have some perspective other than being a long distance purveyor. I was also responding to a poster after a series of posts and referred specifically to the race issue contextually to the southern conservative mostly. I get as specific as I do because I am careful about not generalizing. Are you/were from the US? What else in there did you find objectionable. I shall try and address the "progressive" and "making sense" with your other points.

Double down on the Bush foreign policy?

Winding down the war in Iraq and Afghanistan (yes not entirely) is doubling down? Climate change I shall consider foreign policy here because of the dealings with other countries. Double down? Trying his damnedest to address the Israel/Palestinian issue. Double down? If Bush were around the US would be in Syria and Iran. How is that doubling down? And I haven't even started on the domestic stuff.

Obama pissed off a lot of his natural constituencies at the expense of addressing the most pressing matters of his first term. There is only so much he can do. He took over with the financial system blowing up and got pissed on because he bailed out some financial institutions and the auto industry. This was a success though con. economic purists would have let them fail. At what costs we dont hear. He was cleaning up someone else's messes...glass steagall and the mortagage related problems. And when he wanted to inject funds into the economy to create infrastructure jobs to get a jolt out of the economy he was stopped by the ever so "cooperative" Congress who decided for some "reason" that day 1 after his election they (the senate leader McConnell) was going to ensure that he was going to be a one term President. Why would that be?

I dont understand the doubling down on economic policies? You do realize who controls the purse in the US system? Congress. He wanted to spend more to spur growth but was stopped.

I am as well unsatisfied about the growth in the market with no commensurate similarity (even fractional) on main st. There are many factors here. Again the US President's office in isolation cannot really do too much if the other branches do not cooperate. No President can. It's the system and very inclusive of all the lobby groups as well. And dont get me started on campaign financing which ALL legislators and the President sell their souls to...some more than less.

I agree (on the recovery) for the average citizen (as in Canada I might add) so this is not unique and has not seen benefit from a muted recovery.

I agree with the work force numbers assessment. I dont know what you would be expecting if the other major party were in power? (Canada is a good example). It would likely be similar if not worse because of choice of austerity measures. There has been a sea change because of globalization and all that entails with the technology revolution (akin to the industrial rev.) on top of it. Tight money and it's hoarding abroad because of tax implications are others.

I feel sorry for those who cant get back in. I try to be philosophical about that and "blame" forces larger than a single government. The US and Canada are not alone here though its actually better here than possibly Iceland? II thought I read somewhere they are doing fairly well after a major hiccup...but maybe wrong).

Oh please with the demonizing of Obamacare. He was being pragmatic by not going for a Canada type single payer system.. Are you entirely sure that had the system not changed the costs would not have risen higher? And what about the millions that are getting healthcare they wouldn't under the previous system where Medicaid was under duress and emergency rooms filled (more expensive care). And what about pre existing conditions. You do know that the ACA was modelled after Romney's Mass. system...and the coward would get mute on the subject.

Have not kept up with the latest but reports I have read earlier this year were positive on a both the cost & social well being front especially for children of those who couldnt afford.

Are any HMO's going out of business? What are their profit levels? Any possibility they can lower the deductibles somewhat/restructure the original agreement ? This was another legislation sworn to be defeated because it was considered a deep descending into socialism...and it baffles me that so many Canadians wish the US pop. do not have the same medical system we have. I come from the place where I consider healthcare in a modern industrial society/economy such as ours a right which long term is an overall benefit to the country. I can just imagine the psychological duress on a family who has a seriously sick child eg. and no health insurance or one which would bankrupt you. So, Obama should be blamed for trying to change the status quo to a system which every other major industrial country has for their citizens?

Re your last point. I am curious..what were you expecting given the times. All he promised was mostly "hope" if I recall. I just took it as an optimistic message. There were great economic and social issues including America's standing abroad ...never mind that as goes the US so goes Canada. I dont believe he will be satisfied when its done. Not perfect but he was the best available.

And how do you feel about the new slate of choices ...on either side?

[Uncle_Si]

Brussels in lock down over threat of similar attack as Paris.

Go figure, another country that opened its borders and refused to assimilate refugees is under threat of terrorist attack. It's not a fluke that this is happening.

These countries are run by hardline leftists that play with people's heart strings and demonize anyone that opposes them. Then, when something happens they get tough for a bit and forget about it, only to repeat the cycle.

We're about to do the same damn thing here.

Even if people believe in the intelligence and security capabilities of the UN and Canada, they can't predict how the people they let in will act once they are here.

There's a recurring theme in Belgium, France, Sweden...

Demonize me, call me anti-Canadian, anti whatever you want. But in my view, the Prime Ministers #1 job is to protect the citizens of this country. We have enough problems of our own as it is.

[Uncle_Si]

I rarely agree with Bill Maher, but on this he's right.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-7OsQR...BQY6oLO385sH-Q

Also, Justin Trudeau is of the mindset of the lady in pink. #GroupHug

[Bendit]

I rarely agree with Bill Maher, but on this he's right.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-7OsQR...BQY6oLO385sH-Q

Also, Justin Trudeau is of the mindset of the lady in pink. #GroupHug

You mean you didnt watch the whole show? Shame Sci. You would get a kick out of it. Dont want to spoil it for you but he opened it up with an interview with possibly the next Gov. of California and a riser in the US Dem. party. And knee slappers like:

"Has anyone contributed more to American stupidity than Fox News?". Drum roll.

So, you did not like the stout defense of Canadian values by a minister of the new govt.? Well done Ms Freeland.

You must realize that Maher comes at this subject as an atheist and just as vocal about evangelicals. This isn't new.

Opposition by most liberals to Maher's position on Muslims is his generalization and placing of collective responsibility on 1.5 billion people for the warped and medieval beliefs of a small percentage.

[Uncle_Si]

You mean you didnt watch the whole show? Shame Sci. You would get a kick out of it. Dont want to spoil it for you but he opened it up with an interview with possibly the next Gov. of California and a riser in the US Dem. party. And knee slappers like:

"Has anyone contributed more to American stupidity than Fox News?". Drum roll.

So, you did not like the stout defense of Canadian values by a minister of the new govt.? Well done Ms Freeland.

You must realize that Maher comes at this subject as an atheist and just as vocal about evangelicals. This isn't new.

Opposition by most liberals to Maher's position on Muslims is his generalization and placing of collective responsibility on 1.5 billion people for the warped and medieval beliefs of a small percentage.

No he isn't! He saying we have to call a spade a spade and moderate Muslims need to get angry about Isis is doing and call them out! Not talking about what is happening under sharia law doesn't help. Call a spade a spade. That's what he's doing.

[Bendit]

No he isn't! He saying we have to call a spade a spade and moderate Muslims need to get angry about Isis is doing and call them out! Not talking about what is happening under sharia law doesn't help. Call a spade a spade. That's what he's doing.

Really? Like I said...calling 1.5 billion spades is misplaced everytime no matter the sins of a few who btw (the evidence shows) are rarely practicing muslims or if they are are manipulated by those who are not.

What do you think would happen to Maher, if he would condemn all jews, everywhere, for the Israeli (The Jewish State) occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza and a myriad of ongoing human rights abuses of the Palestinian people? Would you think that would be a logical and fair condemnation? No. You and anyone else would be called an anti-Semite. And rightly so.

I like Maher for the vast number of positions and opinions and humour. I am personally a non believer so I come at this as one who also doesn't believe in a collective guilt/punishment for a whole people. Thats exactly how the terrorist thinks...they slaughtered innocent civilians who died in Paris just because they were French (mostly).

[Uncle_Si]

Really? Like I said...calling 1.5 billion spades is misplaced everytime no matter the sins of a few who btw (the evidence shows) are rarely practicing muslims or if they are are manipulated by those who are not.

What do you think would happen to Maher, if he would condemn all jews, everywhere, for the Israeli (The Jewish State) occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza and a myriad of ongoing human rights abuses of the Palestinian people? Would you think that would be a logical and fair condemnation? No. You and anyone else would be called an anti-Semite. And rightly so.

I like Maher for the vast number of positions and opinions and humour. I am personally a non believer so I come at this as one who also doesn't believe in a collective guilt/punishment for a whole people. Thats exactly how the terrorist thinks...they slaughtered innocent civilians who died in Paris just because they were French (mostly).

Not 1.5billion. Man, you Libs are frustrating. He's calling out the ideas of those that practice sharia law.

All Libs here is "IM A BIGOT" when all we're saying is, let's not pretend their aren't people that practice Islam that consider women to be second class citizens, that practice "honor killings", that use Islam as driving force behind jihad and the caliphate. And let's call those specific people out and that moderate Muslims should do the same.

[mcHAPPY]

Not 1.5billion. Man, you Libs are frustrating. He's calling out the ideas of those that practice sharia law.

All Libs here is "IM A BIGOT" when all we're saying is, let's not pretend their aren't people that practice Islam that consider women to be second class citizens, that practice "honor killings", that use Islam as driving force behind jihad and the caliphate. And let's call those specific people out and that moderate Muslims should do the same.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post542824


Most Muslims have renounced IS and radical Islam.

I believe the media intentionally ignores this as the political agenda is to create an enemy and widespread fear.

[Apollo]

Is Canada learning from Europe's issues and acting accordingly?

The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned.

Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program.

The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people.

In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...lies-1.3330185

There is a link in the article which break down how many each province is taking. It sure does sound like almost half are heading from the Toronto area. This makes sense as they also have the most resources and infrastructure to help so many people.

[Nilanka]

For what it's worth, most fatal attacks in the US are carried out by homegrown terrorists, rather than foreign Jihadists.

http://unitedhumanists.com/2015/11/2...gn-terrorists/