Syrian Crisis in One Picture (Warning: Very Sad)

[Apollo]

Yes.

Martin Armstrong questions if it was to deflect attention from civil unrest at home and looming debt crisis.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39792


What I find most infuriating is after they shoot down the jet, they open fire on defenseless pilot as he parachutes, AND then they shot down a search and rescue helicopter.

If I was Trudeau I would start pushing for the expulsion of Turkey from NATO. Here NATO is at war with ISIS and Turkey is the one buying its black market oil there directly (and indirectly in other instances) funding them.

The reality is ISIS is political theatre. NATO nor the G20 have any real desire to get rid of ISIS. If they did, Turkey would be shown the door.


We are currently in a proxy war that has possibility to start a world war.

I do not believe Trudeau will begin his legacy by aiding a war against Russia. He's already stated he's sending diplomats to attempt to diffuse the situation. If it blows up to something bigger I cannot for the life of me see him signing on to aiding a NATO strike against Russia and I don't believe parliament would authorize such an action.

Russia is in close striking distance to Canada, its a crazy notion that Canada would ever engage Russia in any way. Trudeau's early actions also suggest that if anything the plan is to lower the military presence abroad. He's already stood up to Obama once and said he's not continuing what Harper began.

[mcHAPPY]

I do not believe Trudeau will begin his legacy by aiding a war against Russia. He's already stated he's sending diplomats to attempt to diffuse the situation. If it blows up to something bigger I cannot for the life of me see him signing on to aiding a NATO strike against Russia and I don't believe parliament would authorize such an action.

Russia is in close striking distance to Canada, its a crazy notion that Canada would ever engage Russia in any way. Trudeau's early actions also suggest that if anything the plan is to lower the military presence abroad. He's already stood up to Obama once and said he's not continuing what Harper began.

I sure hope so.

My understanding was during election he said Canada would end involvement in Syria....but no time frame was given.

[Uncle_Si]

I sure hope so.

My understanding was during election he said Canada would end involvement in Syria....but no time frame was given.

We are going to end involvement from an offensive position. But Justin and his team will still be there to provide hugs and moral support to both sides of the effort.

[Apollo]

That sounds like an excellent plan. Love is exactly what this world needs most.

[mcHAPPY]

We are going to end involvement from an offensive position. But Justin and his team will still be there to provide hugs and moral support to both sides of the effort.

Before the last 30 years, diplomacy and a strategy of non-intervention was the foreign policy in the Middle East. There have always been problems there, and likely always will be, but they were confined to that region. Today, as a result of the intervention, the problems have spilled out of the region - not to mention enabled the rise of radicals and extremists.

So if Justin wants to give hugs and provide moral support, I'm all for that because the opposite approach sure as hell has failed.

[Uncle_Si]

Before the last 30 years, diplomacy and a strategy of non-intervention was the foreign policy in the Middle East. There have always been problems there, and likely always will be, but they were confined to that region. Today, as a result of the intervention, the problems have spilled out of the region - not to mention enabled the rise of radicals and extremists.

So if Justin wants to give hugs and provide moral support, I'm all for that because the opposite approach sure as hell has failed.

That's not true, ever heard of the Ottoman Empire?

[mcHAPPY]

That's not true, ever heard of the Ottoman Empire?

Which was foreign intervention in the region.

[Bendit]

Before the last 30 years, diplomacy and a strategy of non-intervention was the foreign policy in the Middle East. There have always been problems there, and likely always will be, but they were confined to that region. Today, as a result of the intervention, the problems have spilled out of the region - not to mention enabled the rise of radicals and extremists.

So if Justin wants to give hugs and provide moral support, I'm all for that because the opposite approach sure as hell has failed.

I am afraid as long as the industrial west (as well as Japan) is reliant on oil from that region and has a large financial stake there including maintaining a power presence so the US$ is used as the defacto OPEC commodity trading currency I am pessimistic.

The Israel-Palestine issue as well has been exacerbating the attitude of arab muslims for many years now due to America's support for Israel regardless both politically, monetarily and militarily. Now an additional problem has arisen because Iran (shia) is flexing it's power to balance out the Arab sunnis (Saudis etc.) in the region and the US finds itself in the middle.

All of these issues make it very difficult to wean away and allow a power vacuum to occur with possibly the Russians filling it. The way US foreign policy and their internal politics is intertwined no president could just walk away from the region. The best would be to not get involved in any new adventures and slowly detach with a balanced handling of all the actors in the region.

No one wins a war these days. I mean a rag tag group of about 25000 (ISIS) probably not all armed are keeping everyone at bay and running a state like the mob and sending their hitmen to the west. Amazing.

[mcHAPPY]

More hypocrisy:

And now, prepare yourself for some of the most epic hypocrisy ever to spew from the mouths of NATO and its allies. From BBC ca. 2012:

Syria insists the F-4 Phantom jet was shot down inside Syrian airspace. The plane crashed into the eastern Mediterranean and its two pilots are missing.

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat". "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said.

Well, apparently it can, because that's exactly what Turkey did on Tuesday - use a 17 second incursion as an excuse to shoot down a Russian warplane.

But it doesn't stop there:

In a statement, NATO's 28 members said the shooting down of the plane was "unacceptable" and they stood together with Turkey "in the spirit of strong solidarity".

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "It is another example of the Syrian authorities' disregard for international norms."

It's funny - NATO didn't say Turkey had "disregarded international norms" on Tuesday.

And finally:

Turkey has also accused its neighbour of firing on a search and rescue plane looking for the F-4 Phantom jet, although it was not brought down.

Oh, you mean kind of like the Turkish-supported and US-armed FSA First Coastal Division did yesterday when they used an American-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter killing one Russian Marine in the process?

Enough said.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...pretext-attack

What is good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander, it seems.

[Bendit]

More hypocrisy:





What is good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander, it seems.

Both Russia and Turkey (Nato) are playing a dangerous game here. But we must not pretend this was the first and only time an incursion has occurred. Below is an excerpt from a news item of Oct 5th. Russia has been in and out of Turkey it seems. I have also seen where they have come increasing close if not into other Euro countries if I am not mistaken even Canada's northern limits.

A war of words has broken out between Russia and Nato over Moscow’s military intervention in Syria and its violation of Turkish airspace.

The row threatens to further escalate tensions over Moscow’s airstrikes to support the regime of Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad. The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, said his country could not endure Russian violations of its airspace in its campaign in Syria and said Russia risked “losing” Turkey.

“Nato has issued a stern ultimatum,” Erdoğan was quoted as saying at a press conference in Brussels by local media. “We cannot endure it. Some steps that we do not desire are being taken. It is not suitable for Turkey to accept them. This is also beyond the principles of Nato.”

Nato’s secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg, had said earlier on Tuesday that the Russian incursions into Turkish airspace did not appear to be an accident, because the incursions had happened twice and lasted for a long time.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...olations-syria

[mcHAPPY]

Both Russia and Turkey (Nato) are playing a dangerous game here. But we must not pretend this was the first and only time an incursion has occurred. Below is an excerpt from a news item of Oct 5th. Russia has been in and out of Turkey it seems. I have also seen where they have come increasing close if not into other Euro countries if I am not mistaken even Canada's northern limits.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...olations-syria

And turkey violated Greece airspace 2244 times in 2014.

https://www.rt.com/news/323429-greec...ce-violations/


The issue here is context.

There was premeditated opportunism.

Russia was in Turkish airspace for no more than 17 secs and more than likely closer to 5 secs.

Turkey is retaliating based on Russia's support of Assad and operating under the protection NATO is granting.

Meanwhile the only foreign forces legally in Syria right now are Russia and Iran.

Turkey is supporting ISIS and everyone knows it.

What a crock of shit.

[raptors999]

And turkey violated Greece airspace 2244 times in 2014.

https://www.rt.com/news/323429-greec...ce-violations/


The issue here is context.

There was premeditated opportunism.

Russia was in Turkish airspace for no more than 17 secs and more than likely closer to 5 secs.

Turkey is retaliating based on Russia's support of Assad and operating under the protection NATO is granting.

Meanwhile the only foreign forces legally in Syria right now are Russia and Iran.

Turkey is supporting ISIS and everyone knows it.

What a crock of shit.

It's American Thanksgiving and Turkey is always in the news.

[Bendit]

And turkey violated Greece airspace 2244 times in 2014.

https://www.rt.com/news/323429-greec...ce-violations/


The issue here is context.

There was premeditated opportunism.

Russia was in Turkish airspace for no more than 17 secs and more than likely closer to 5 secs.

Turkey is retaliating based on Russia's support of Assad and operating under the protection NATO is granting.

Meanwhile the only foreign forces legally in Syria right now are Russia and Iran.

Turkey is supporting ISIS and everyone knows it.

What a crock of shit.

Greece & Turkey are Nato members.

Greece has a thousand ? islands in the Aegean...this is the issue re the incursions...

"The conflict arises when Turkey recognizes the Greek national airspace over the Aegean as six miles and flies its planes within the 10-mile airspace claimed by Greece."

The two countries have had a long standing historical pissing contest with each other. They just love rubbing each others noses in ... when the can. Please dont compare that with the Russian issue.

I agree that the shootdown was a pre meditated event and the US was probably in on it. Russia is flexing their muscles. Its happened before and there is context to this as far as Putin goes and the breakup of the soviet empire. Russia is trying to get back into the game. The Americans want to stop it. Geo politics and brinkmanship. Its happened before.

[rocwell]

[Nilanka]

I've sent NATO a facebook friend request, but no dice