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Thread: Do We Deserve Better? Should the MLSE Just Forget About the Luxury Tax?

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Do We Deserve Better? Should the MLSE Just Forget About the Luxury Tax?

    As Simmons reiterates via Bosh, should the MLSE suck it up and just spend instead of worrying about exceeding the cap and into luxury tax? I mean, don't we as the fans deserve it because by all accounts the Raptors have some of the most loyal and supportive fans of any NBA team out there. I think any rebuild at this point will most certainly effect the number of people in the stands. I mean, with the season on the line last week the Raptors still couldn't sell out any of those games.

    I'm all for spending. How about the rest of you?

    Chris Bosh is right about one thing: Itís time for the Raptors to spend some money, exceed the salary cap and forget about the NBA luxury tax. Raptors fans have been extremely supportive. They deserve far more than what management and ownership has provided in return ... The trouble with all this talk of the Raptors moving Bosh in a sign-and-trade deal is this: Outside of the Knicks, where can the Raptors get any real return for Bosh in a sign-and-trade. You canít get it from Cleveland, Miami, Dallas, or really anybody else in the East.
    Source - Click here

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Miami has a young guy like Beasley and picks... They also have the rights to a Raptors lotto protected pick.

    If they're going to spend over the cap they're still limited. They can re-sign Bosh and retain a guy like Johnson. Where do they go then? Teams like the Lakers got so high over cap thanks to players like Shaq making $30M/yr through escalating contracts. Hedo, Andrea and Jose are all going to extend the cap number over the next few years, that's for sure.
    Last edited by Apollo; Sun Apr 18th, 2010 at 12:46 PM.

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Regardless of what moves are or aren't done this summer Apollo, if moves can be made where we can rid ourselves of Jose, Hedo or Andrea and we improve even it means we exceed our cap and into luxury tax, do you not think its time to at least consider it if your the MLSE? Because if not, we as fans have to prepare ourselves for an extended period of time of sub .500 basketball and even more frustrating times in Raptorland.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    Regardless of what moves are or aren't done this summer Apollo, if moves can be made where we can rid ourselves of Jose, Hedo or Andrea and we improve even it means we exceed our cap and into luxury tax, do you not think its time to at least consider it if your the MLSE? Because if not, we as fans have to prepare ourselves for an extended period of time of sub .500 basketball and even more frustrating times in Raptorland.
    I just don't think they can spend their way out of this one. I think Hedo is a huge problem for the Raptors... One that they may not be able to move unless he comes into next season and plays like he once did in Orlando. My mind is prepared for a few years of sub .500 basketball because I feel Bosh is gone and very few teams make the playoffs in the middle of a rebuild.

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    Only two scenarios work for me:

    1) Go into the tax. Sign anyone and everyone we can in order to get better - the Boston route.

    2) Shed salary and build through the draft. Put out entertaining young teams high on development. Go into the tax only when a solid young core is in place - the Portland route.

    No more of this in-between garbage.

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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    Only two scenarios work for me:

    1) Go into the tax. Sign anyone and everyone we can in order to get better - the Boston route.

    2) Shed salary and build through the draft. Put out entertaining young teams high on development. Go into the tax only when a solid young core is in place - the Portland route.

    No more of this in-between garbage.
    i say go the boston route but try getting guys that at least have 1 or 2 years left in their 20's. like 27,28,29.

    surround them with young guys that have good work ethic which we already have.

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    Gosh no -- It would be idiotic for the Raptors to spend their way into the luxury tax while planning to be there for the foreseeable future.

    It would create a New York Knicks under Isiah Thomas type situation. The Raptors need to create opportunities to add high quality talent, not average talent (MLE), star talent. They do not have trade assets so they cannot do it that way + if they spend money they will not have any cap space in the future (no free agency) + their squad will be above .500 and have no high draft picks.

    No high draft picks + no cap space + no trade assets = a Raptors team that makes the playoffs year after year with no chance of advancement and is mired in a long term financial nightmare.

    Isiah's Knicks ... to repeat, it is absolutely idiotic for the Raptors to walk down this road. It's worse than letting Bosh leave. The Raptors have a much better chance of building a winning basketball team if Bosh leaves.

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    The Raptors have two good choices:

    (1) Do not spend the luxury tax

    (2) Go above the luxury tax threshold temporarily with the understanding that Reggie + Banks + Belinelli are coming off the books next offseason and with the understanding that they need to dump other large contracts (Bargs, Hedo, Jose, Jack) over the next 12 months to create cap space in order to sign a star player sometime in the future.

    And one idiotic choice

    (3) keep spending around this core with no chance of becoming a contender

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    I simply don't understand this belief that the MLSE is cheap. They've NEVER, EVER shown that. Good franchises simply do not go into the tax unless it makes them a contender. The Raptors have never had that chance. You can't simply spend your way to contending. It doesn't work that way. Nearly every single contender did not go over the luxury tax until they needed to make that next step. Cleveland, Orlando, Dallas, San Antonio and possibly the Lakers (I can't remember) all were under the tax until they needed to take that next step.

    This whole tax issue is yet another excuse Raptor fans can use to whine about something.

    The Raptors have never had enough talent to warrant going above the tax threshold. This summer, I could see it ONLY if it means constructing the team differently. I think they've got enough talent to be a very good team, it's just that it doesn't work together. I think Colangelo has enough pieces to be able to deal for a contender. It would be a risky move, since they certainly aren't a contender now, but I don' think Colangelo has had enough pieces until now.

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    I don't think Hedo Turkoglu's contract is that large of an issue. One bad $10 million deal won't stop you from fielding a top team.

    You would rather not have it there ... but at the end of the day, it won't kill you.

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    Default Contenders

    Raptors is not near close to the contenders, therefore I would say at this time is less likely you would go into luxury tax. It has to be a huge change, like Boston when they landed Garnett and Ray Allen. but also kept Pierce and Rondo.
    So far, the signing of Hedo and trade for Jermaine O'Neal was totally failure, few more moves like this and Raptors may go in luxury tax with a shitty team.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote insight_tor wrote: View Post
    So far, the signing of Hedo and trade for Jermaine O'Neal was totally failure, few more moves like this and Raptors may go in luxury tax with a shitty team.
    Yeah and here is a huge fear. If you spend into luxury tax and its a failure then you're left with something that could look like the 2001-2010 Knicks, horrendous. Zeke took a lot of risks while in NYC and many of them failed. Colangelo has taken a lot of risks while in Toronto and many of them have failed. New York decided to trust Zeke and continue to let him spend and gamble and the result was a horrible build for a decade.

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    i would like to know if most people on RR are averse to the idea of being crappy for 2-3 years and building through the draft. At least the Raptors would be able to put out a young and developing team, and play to Triano's strength in player development.

    I don't know if that would work though, given the Raps have contracts on their books like Hedo, Calderon and Bargnani that are fairly long term.

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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    i would like to know if most people on RR are averse to the idea of being crappy for 2-3 years and building through the draft. At least the Raptors would be able to put out a young and developing team, and play to Triano's strength in player development.

    I don't know if that would work though, given the Raps have contracts on their books like Hedo, Calderon and Bargnani that are fairly long term.
    The painful smart way is to hope the draft pick we get can really change the dynamic of our team, or to try to stat-pad Calderon to have him traded for picks. I'll tolerate Bargs for the long term because he can "learn". TO actually tolerate, Turk needs a true C and better SGs and PGs if we can "steal them.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Well if we talking about three years, Calderon's deal expires in three year and the following year Hedo would be in the final season on his contract. I think the Raptors are going to be stuck like the Hornets were with Peja. A player past his prime, make money he couldn't land in his prime and with no market to sell him to.

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    Go over the tax to continue the mediocrity??? YOu gotta be KIDDING ME!!!!

    Don't encourage BC to keep loading this team with more mediocre players when he wasted $25+ Million on average talent with sub-par athleticism.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Not sure Toronto has the assets to bring in two All-Stars to play with Bosh.

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