Paris Terror Attacks

[Bendit]

Just depressing.

The fucking world is going crazy.

Ideologies, religion fundamentalists, inequalities, wars, power syndromes

No one talks anymore.


What pissed me off most was one of the bands I kinda follow was performing at the Bataclan ...Eagles of Death Metal
...just kidding.

http://www.nytimes.com/?action=click...t&vS=undefined


Has it now become an existential question.... How must liberal democracies respond to this very clear threat?

Stand with France of course in the immediate....but what going forward?

[Miekenstien]

Just depressing.

The fucking world is going crazy.

Ideologies, religion fundamentalists, inequalities, wars, power syndromes

No one talks anymore.


What pissed me off most was one of the bands I kinda follow was performing at the Bataclan ...Eagles of Death Metal
...just kidding.

http://www.nytimes.com/?action=click...t&vS=undefined


Has it now become an existential question.... How must liberal democracies respond to this very clear threat?

Stand with France of course in the immediate....but what going forward?

ideological war. i like that we have an afghani women at a high level of government now. that is a very visible symbol that goes against the grain of teachings she and women like her would have had in their own societies.

i did already see the media begin to blame the victims. i liken this to how the media would vilify anyone who suggested a woman brought being raped on herself by wearing slutty clothes.

[SkywalkerAC]

It's not actually that big a threat in the grand scheme of things. It's a shocking, terrorizing event, but the threat is only to our psyche and a miniscule portion of the population, as devasting as it is in both respects.

Being at war is a threat, but this is little more than an orchestrated a stunt to remind us of that fact - that carnage and misery is what many have to call home. They've done their job, and now the well is poisoned. Or is it?

Has this attack made the West sufficiently afraid again? I hope not, fear is the mind-killer.

[Bendit]

It's not actually that big a threat in the grand scheme of things. It's a shocking, terrorizing event, but the threat is only to our psyche and a miniscule portion of the population, as devasting as it is in both respects.

Being at war is a threat, but this is little more than an orchestrated a stunt to remind us of that fact - that carnage and misery is what many have to call home. They've done their job, and now the well is poisoned. Or is it?

Has this attack made the West sufficiently afraid again? I hope not, fear is the mind-killer.

Bold: I certainly hope not. This is what ISIS or whoever is hoping for. They (I think) believe (possibly with reason ...not all good) that the many agnostics/atheists/the unclean here are afraid. This is a miscalculation imo. From my perspective we have more to lose than them...if you know what I mean. They have yet to go thru their "enlightening". That wasnt meant to be a put down... it is education in a base sense and I do not absolve the west to be somewhat responsible.

But that is a whole another tale. Put simply it's payback for the "great" economic policies of slavery, empire and colonialism never mind the very injudicious carving out of lands over the world into incompatibe areas of tribes and native peoples when they were ready to leave.

[Bendit]

ideological war. i like that we have an afghani women at a high level of government now. that is a very visible symbol that goes against the grain of teachings she and women like her would have had in their own societies.

i did already see the media begin to blame the victims. i liken this to how the media would vilify anyone who suggested a woman brought being raped on herself by wearing slutty clothes.

I didnt see this...is there a link/context?

[Miekenstien]

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...ODgniPplMWIuM-

[SkywalkerAC]

So the blameless victim isn't the actual victims, or Paris even, but the West?

[Uncle_Si]

Wow are you guys ever blind. ISIS isn't thinking in the same century as us.

In their post taking credit for the terrorist attack they cite France as the number one target because it was the forefront of the CRUSADES that's initially destroyed their caliphate the last time they tried. ISIL (which is the correct term for them, the L is for the Levant which covers parts of Syria Israel and some other place that I don't remember) is trying to establish the caliphate. Convert or die. This applies to not only Christians and Jews but to different sects of Muslims as well. This isn't a war on the West because of the shit going on right now (although it is certainly a factor) but is stemmed from the the Crusades that started in 1095.

Don't believe me? Here is a direct quote from ISIL sourced from the National Post:

The statement said France and its supporters “will remain at the top of the list of targets of the Islamic State.”

“The stench of death will not leave their noses as long as they remain at the forefront of the Crusaders’ campaign, dare to curse our prophet, boast of a war on Islam in France, and strike Muslims in the lands of the caliphate with warplanes that were of no use to them in the streets and rotten alleys of Paris,” it said

The sooner we start listening to their own damn reasons for doing this shit the sooner they can figure out how to fight it. We have to stop with the bullshit political rhetoric that lets politicians play the blame game. This is a real threat. Women and little girls are being sold into sex slavery, little boys are being beheaded and their heads placed on stakes, they are caging people setting them on fire and parading them around as people CHEER!

Wake the fck up.

Here is the article I sourced the quote from.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2015-11-15

[raptors999]

Wow are you guys ever blind. ISIS isn't thinking in the same century as us.

In their post taking credit for the terrorist attack they cite France as the number one target because it was the forefront of the CRUSADES that's initially destroyed their caliphate the last time they tried. ISIL (which is the correct term for them, the L is for the Levant which covers parts of Syria Israel and some other place that I don't remember) is trying to establish the caliphate. Convert or die. This applies to not only Christians and Jews but to different sects of Muslims as well. This isn't a war on the West because of the shit going on right now (although it is certainly a factor) but is stemmed from the the Crusades that started in 1095.

Don't believe me? Here is a direct quote from ISIL sourced from the National Post:

The statement said France and its supporters “will remain at the top of the list of targets of the Islamic State.”

“The stench of death will not leave their noses as long as they remain at the forefront of the Crusaders’ campaign, dare to curse our prophet, boast of a war on Islam in France, and strike Muslims in the lands of the caliphate with warplanes that were of no use to them in the streets and rotten alleys of Paris,” it said

The sooner we start listening to their own damn reasons for doing this shit the sooner they can figure out how to fight it. We have to stop with the bullshit political rhetoric that lets politicians play the blame game. This is a real threat. Women and little girls are being sold into sex slavery, little boys are being beheaded and their heads placed on stakes, they are caging people setting them on fire and parading them around as people CHEER!

Wake the fck up.

Here is the article I sourced the quote from.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2015-11-15

The World needs to stop thinking of ISIS as terrorists and just treat them like criminals. Drones and tanks don't work against thugs. Do some investigation and start an international drag net. They went after Mexicans selling weed and Colombians selling cocaine they can take down nut jobs in the sand killing people.

[Apollo]

Just depressing.

The fucking world is going crazy.

Ideologies, religion fundamentalists, inequalities, wars, power syndromes

No one talks anymore.


What pissed me off most was one of the bands I kinda follow was performing at the Bataclan ...Eagles of Death Metal
...just kidding.

http://www.nytimes.com/?action=click...t&vS=undefined


Has it now become an existential question.... How must liberal democracies respond to this very clear threat?

Stand with France of course in the immediate....but what going forward?

Some of the people in attendance thought this was part of the act. At first.

The people who did this got into their country as refugees. The whole Syrian crisis is a major security concern to these countries because a small handful of organized individuals mixed in with the people are capable of this.

[Bendit]

Wow are you guys ever blind. ISIS isn't thinking in the same century as us.

I understand the thinking part but what/who in the discussion is "blind"? I think everyone so far agrees that it was an assault on innocents to satisfy a warped religious cum political view which is closer to the medieval period.

The more difficult question is how a group in the deserts of the m/e is able to convince and "enthrall" young people around the world that their view has meaning and to come join them?

Skywalker's suggestion above that there was a shock element to the operation has meaning. These actions were a larger manifest of the public beheadings and have a nihilistic quality to them. They want an over reaction and they win.

So, as my OP suggested....how should the west respond both internally and externally?


edit...another observation...just a few days ago there was another horrific attack in Beirut by ISIS. Not much of a response from the West on that...why not?

[Bendit]

Some of the people in attendance thought this was part of the act. At first.

The people who did this got into their country as refugees. The whole Syrian crisis is a major security concern to these countries because a small handful of organized individuals mixed in with the people are capable of this.

I am unsure about the bold. Have not seen anything official that this the case. It is always possible of course....and if there was none of the mass migration this entry as a lone entrant would still have been possible. Which also raises the attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices a few months ago....no refugees there I dont think.

There has to be a response to be sure...what, I am unsure. An overwhelming response (eg. like the Iraq invasion) will just make ISIS go underground and mix in their own population (it's not such a large group)...and then what?

[SkywalkerAC]

I'd guess this attack has two primary motivations (correct me if this is already well-established) 1) to slow-down and reverse the acceptance of refugees and the modernization/moderation of Islam in the West and 2) to draw Western powers into a ground-based war in the 'caliphate', which they can then use as a recruitment tool.

[raptors999]

I'd guess this attack has two primary motivations (correct me if this is already well-established) 1) to slow-down and reverse the acceptance of refugees and the modernization/moderation of Islam in the West and 2) to draw Western powers into a ground-based war in the 'caliphate', which they can then use as a recruitment tool.

ISIS uses attacks to legitimize themselves. Trudeau doesn't respond to attacks by biker gangs or crips and bloods. They are not a political opponent they are just criminals. World leaders should be recognizing them and the CIA, Interpol whoever should be hunting them and anyone who aids them down

[Bendit]

ISIS uses attacks to legitimize themselves. Trudeau doesn't respond to attacks by biker gangs or crips and bloods. They are not a political opponent they are just criminals. World leaders should be recognizing them and the CIA, Interpol whoever should be hunting them and anyone who aids them down

...and Al Qaida before them. There is a school of thought about casting the perpetrators of 9/11 exactly as criminals and hijackers. That they had a political motivation (wrapped in religion) which should have been addressed to understand their psyche and how Bin Laden led them ...as well as how they went undetected. Of course GWB brought out the cowboy bravado like his manhood was questioned and went after the wrong guy (Saddam).