Game #15: Toronto Raptors 91 - Los Angeles Clippers 80

[Demographic Shift]

Wizards only played 8 games while other played 12-13 but had 4 losses while Knicks played 12 with 6 losses. NBA teams sometime have lots of games in hand or play alot more games. Using GB in basketball isn't like Baseball: Games aren't 50-50 in W-L

I really can't follow what your trying to say here.

[Snooch]

Sorry you said wins are meaningless in the NBA. You've lost all credibility with me after that quote. You can keep trying to prove your point but, just sound like rubbish to me.

You said raps have the 5th best record in the league

You have no credibility

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[Axel]

Stellar rebuttal. Getting the impression you don't like it when people don't share the one true version of the truth.
If you don't like his opinion thats OK.
No one on this board is in the pregame coaches meeting so how do you know for certain the strategy wasn't to give up perimeter looks. Peel it back a bit and you see who took them. An aging Pierce and Crawford, Austin Rivers the coaches kid who might not be in the league if he wasn't on dads team and to Josh Smith who most if not all teams want taking that shot. Maybe we just gave those guys shots. In any event what we do know for certain is that they missed them and they lost. Don't make this out as if they were taking them in shoot around and unguarded either.
Its like my old junior coach used to say... If they give you a shot below the dot and close to the wall and you keep taking it and missing we deserve to lose.

I don't like when people say you can't criticize a team for either poor planning or poor execution because "you weren't in the locker room/ you aren't a NBA coach". When the reality is, you don't need to know what was said in the locker room to know that leaving an opponent for uncontested 3PA is a poor defensive result.

We only contested 4 out of 32 attempts. That is pathetic, either by poor design or poor execution. Can't say for sure as I wasn't in the meeting like you said, but I can definitely say that it's a dangerous tactic if planned and bad execution if not planned.

Chris Paul, JJ Reddick also got wide open looks. Was that part of the plan?

Look, I get it, you want to try and play devils advocate and look for alternative theories when things look bad, but really all you are doing is providing weak excuses and then trying to prop them up with "you can't refute it, you aren't on the coaching staff" - which really adds nothing to the conversation. If you want to try and provide rationale for why that is a reasonable strategy to employ, then please do.

[Demographic Shift]

Look it up. Near the end of season losses are what determines who will be in the playoffs. Nobody looks at wins

Thats not true. Your running up against boolean logic. With a defined number of games played by all teams being set at 82 both wins and losses are of equal importance as the sum of two can't vary from 82. So wins are equally important to losses.

[raptors999]

I don't like when people say you can't criticize a team for either poor planning or poor execution because "you weren't in the locker room/ you aren't a NBA coach". When the reality is, you don't need to know what was said in the locker room to know that leaving an opponent for uncontested 3PA is a poor defensive result.

We only contested 4 out of 32 attempts. That is pathetic, either by poor design or poor execution. Can't say for sure as I wasn't in the meeting like you said, but I can definitely say that it's a dangerous tactic if planned and bad execution if not planned.

Chris Paul, JJ Reddick also got wide open looks. Was that part of the plan?

Look, I get it, you want to try and play devils advocate and look for alternative theories when things look bad, but really all you are doing is providing weak excuses and then trying to prop them up with "you can't refute it, you aren't on the coaching staff" - which really adds nothing to the conversation. If you want to try and provide rationale for why that is a reasonable strategy to employ, then please do.

Either way but the open three is an issue Raptors need to fix. It's happened more than a few times and its not a difficult fix, Somebody need to leave his mnan and contest it

[Chr1s1anL]

You said raps have the 5th best record in the league

You have no credibility

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What I meant to say is raptors are tied for 5th in wins in the league. Only four other teams have more wins than the raptors so far.

[Nilanka]

What I meant to say is raptors are tied for 5th in wins in the league. Only four other teams have more wins than the raptors so far.

We've played more games than most teams. This is why simply counting wins doesn't tell the whole story (what raptors999 was referring to).

[raptors999]

Thats not true. Your running up against boolean logic. With a defined number of games played by all teams being set at 82 both wins and losses are of equal importance as the sum of two can't vary from 82. So wins are equally important to losses.

They aren't. That's not Boolean logic. 3 games left with a 1 fewer loss is a much better position than 1 game left up 1 in the loss and win column. If those three game left are weak teams and 1 game left a playoff team or a top seed it isn't hard to figure out the end. The team that played more game will have more wins just because they played more games.

[KHD]

i don't understand how we're having a debate about this, but going by total wins doesn't mean anything when not all teams have played the same number of games. like, this is basic stuff.

we have a pretty good system to see who's doing better in a given year already... win %. you know, that number that gets quoted on every single standings sheet on any nba site? we can get more sophisticated, but not less

[Demographic Shift]

I don't like when people say you can't criticize a team for either poor planning or poor execution because "you weren't in the locker room/ you aren't a NBA coach". When the reality is, you don't need to know what was said in the locker room to know that leaving an opponent for uncontested 3PA is a poor defensive result.

We only contested 4 out of 32 attempts. That is pathetic, either by poor design or poor execution. Can't say for sure as I wasn't in the meeting like you said, but I can definitely say that it's a dangerous tactic if planned and bad execution if not planned.

Chris Paul, JJ Reddick also got wide open looks. Was that part of the plan?

Look, I get it, you want to try and play devils advocate and look for alternative theories when things look bad, but really all you are doing is providing weak excuses and then trying to prop them up with "you can't refute it, you aren't on the coaching staff" - which really adds nothing to the conversation. If you want to try and provide rationale for why that is a reasonable strategy to employ, then please do.

You really get your shorts in a knot when people push back on you don't you.

I am happy we won. I think others are as well. You seem to be unhappy whether we win or lose. Always a "yeah but..."

I thought we closed up on Reddick pretty well. Chris Paul had an off game but we closed up on him as a matter of course. The other guys you want taking that shot. So you kinda give them the dead leg and hope they bite and they did.

Josh Smith is so bad at 3 point shooting that Detroit ate millions to get out from under him. There was a bit of a shouting match between him and the Clips coaching staff post game. No one will know for sure but he did go 0 for 3. That Doc's kid is even in the league smacks of nepotism. He isn't very good. He too went oh fer three. The rap killer Pierce has finally lost it. What he did even 3 years ago doesn't matter. This year he shoots about 25% from 3. Jamal is now in his 15th or 16th year. When it goes it goes and it sure looks like its left Jamal as he went oh fer six. In the lead up to the raps game he has posted nights of 1/7 , 3/7 , 1/3.. he had a good night vs the Blazers though going 5/8. Still Crawford is 28% this year from 3. Let er rip.

This team is a better defensive team than last years edition so hoping our prospects are better when and if we get to the post season. Hoping you see something somewhere sometime that you can like as the season grinds on for another 5 or 6 months.

[tDotted]

i don't understand how we're having a debate about this, but going by total wins doesn't mean anything when not all teams have played the same number of games. like, this is basic stuff.

we have a pretty good system already... win %. you know, that number that gets quoted on every single standings sheet on any nba site?

Nope. Incorrect. Nada. Bigger number trumps all.. basic stuff man. Last year's Sixers > GSW. 18 > 15. Simple.

[Demographic Shift]

They aren't. That's not Boolean logic. 3 games left with a 1 fewer loss is a much better position than 1 game left up 1 in the loss and win column. If those three game left are weak teams and 1 game left a playoff team or a top seed it isn't hard to figure out the end. The team that played more game will have more wins just because they played more games.

All true.. but I think what we were working on was when ALL the games have been played.
Then wins and losses are of equal value.
Prior to that happening... the season being done.... games in the loss column are more important.

[Axel]

You really get your shorts in a knot when people push back on you don't you.

I am happy we won. I think others are as well. You seem to be unhappy whether we win or lose. Always a "yeah but..."

I thought we closed up on Reddick pretty well. Chris Paul had an off game but we closed up on him as a matter of course. The other guys you want taking that shot. So you kinda give them the dead leg and hope they bite and they did.

Josh Smith is so bad at 3 point shooting that Detroit ate millions to get out from under him. There was a bit of a shouting match between him and the Clips coaching staff post game. No one will know for sure but he did go 0 for 3. That Doc's kid is even in the league smacks of nepotism. He isn't very good. He too went oh fer three. The rap killer Pierce has finally lost it. What he did even 3 years ago doesn't matter. This year he shoots about 25% from 3. Jamal is now in his 15th or 16th year. When it goes it goes and it sure looks like its left Jamal as he went oh fer six. In the lead up to the raps game he has posted nights of 1/7 , 3/7 , 1/3.. he had a good night vs the Blazers though going 5/8. Still Crawford is 28% this year from 3. Let er rip.

This team is a better defensive team than last years edition so hoping our prospects are better when and if we get to the post season. Hoping you see something somewhere sometime that you can like as the season grinds on for another 5 or 6 months.

I assure you that my shorts are neither in a knot or any of your business.

My happiness isn't based on such trivial matters, I just want to see the team I cheer for play good basketball. If you want to simply say "yay we won" or "boo we lost" then that is your prerogative. But some people, like myself, want to see sustainable high quality play that ultimately translates into post season success. Discussing the aspects that seem to be concerning to that goal is my prerogative. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to be here or read those comments.

We contested 4 of 32 shots. Paul and Reddick each had 4 attempts. So 50% of their attempts were "wide open" by definition. You can focus on Smith, Rivers and others - but leaving accomplished shooters wide open will more often than not lead to disastrous results. Plus all those stats you provided are season averages, but how well do they shoot when wide open? Would wager that all would shoot better than their typical season averages. So again, poor plan or poor execution- either way is bad.

So keep trying to find an angle - really, but please provide better rationale than "we don't know what the coaches planned" and, perhaps most importantly, keep the comments about me, or any poster, out of it. Stick to the topics and facts

[raptors999]

All true.. but I think what we were working on was when ALL the games have been played.
Then wins and losses are of equal value.
Prior to that happening... the season being done.... games in the loss column are more important.

No, this was about now and Raptors having 9 wins being 5th when the 6 losses are what matter

[Chr1s1anL]

After 15 games Raps are 10th(99.5) in defensive rating and 7th(103.3) in offensive rating. Also 9th(+3.8)in net rating. 23rd in pace and came up 8th in power ranking this week.