Trade Partners Interested in Expiring Contracts

[mo-sales]

I don't like to quote because it takes up too much space, I will simply try and continue the back and forth.

While this thread may not be about Bosh's future, it is tied in considerably. If he stays this team is one player away from contending. I believe Emeka or any defensive minded center could be that guy and I would support adding pay roll regardless of the cap ramifications.

The most important function for improving this team is flexibility. In the coming year, several teams, many of which you named will be desperately looking to shed pay roll for financial relief. I think the Washington mold is one that can be used as a model for future considerations.

NO is going to unload Paul, it makes too much sense not to. I'm not sure if we have enough to attain him or even then retain him, but that should be a pipe dream he should look into. Philly had to shed soon and no one wants Dalembert or Brand. Taking Young, Lou Williams or Iggy would help. GS has to make a move, they are over loaded at PG and PF. Memphis if they do no keep Gay is always looking to be aggressive, Turk could be a good fit there and they might even want Jose. Minny and NJ are rebuilding and are likely about to have a PG problem. Colangelo keeps looking at this league as it was ten years ago when most deals were fair and both side benefited. The new NBA is one where one team wins a trade and the other wins cap flexibility.

The goal should not be to acquiesce these teams by taking on thier bad contracts, it should be to hijack these teams for providing a necessary service. By continuing to pay above market value to retain or attain players, he reduces the teams flexibility to answer the bell at the next fire sale.

Colangelo has been willing to do two things in his reign here, overpay for players and make big deals. So far none of the big signings or moves he has made has panned out. I feel he has been looking in the wrong direction and acting too quickly. Instead of trading talent for talent, he should use this fractured economy and expiring contracts to bide his time until the perfect opportunity arises, not just a potential one.

[Apollo]

The goal should not be to acquiesce these teams by taking on thier bad contracts, it should be to hijack these teams for providing a necessary service. By continuing to pay above market value to retain or attain players, he reduces the teams flexibility to answer the bell at the next fire sale.

Flexibility is all about perception. Colangelo says MLSE is willing to pay tax. He mentioned numbers as high as $7M above the tax threshold. There's lots of flexibility and if he lands a guy with a big contract over the next three years it changes nothing from their current standpoint, except instead of three bench dud they have another starter or high impact 6th man. They're capped for the next four years anyway. Dallas was in the right place at the right time for the Wiz "fire sale". You totally missed the fact that they have an $86M payroll. Teams who sit on their hands and don't take risks never amount to anything. Teams don't sit on expiring contracts hoping for a team to randomly disintegrate.

[mo-sales]

I don't think we are disagreeing. We both want them to spend money and go over the tax, I just don't want them to jump at the first offer for our expiring contracts in standard Colangelo fashion. In order for this team to make a significant jump in the standings, they are likely going to have to add a big piece without giving up too much.

This will likely have to wait until after the FA dust settles, but yes I would like to wait for a team to randomly disintegrate and pluck off the assets.

As far as assets that the raptors have, the Evans/Banks contracts are as valuable as Derozan. Separately I think the contracts could fetch any of the players on your list, but I think if BC waited he could grab Paul and Emeka for Banks/Evans, Derozan, our first round pick and Bargs.

NO would build around Collison, Thorton, their two picks, Derozan, West and Bargs plus whatever they can get for Peja's expiring. They are terrified of Paul walking in two years and with thier current roster and timid ownership, they are unlikely to compete in ultra competitive west.

[Apollo]

I just don't want them to jump at the first offer for our expiring contracts in standard Colangelo fashion.

What are you basing that on?

[mo-sales]

When he first traded for TJ for Charlie V, that seemed to come out of nowhere. One day CV was a cornerstone of the franchise, the next day he was gone. Were there better offers out there, did he even check?

Similarly with the JO for Marion deal, that was rumored for a while and he seemed so dead set on it that he let Riley hijack him for the 1st round pick because Riley knew how narrow minded he was.

BC seems to make up his mind early and stick to it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Was he ever really going to sign Marion long term, didn't it always seem like a rental. How early did he zero in on Turk and disregard everything else.

Most of this is pure speculation, but when is BC ever approached for a deal? He seems to be the one always pursuing and as a result has to keep upping the ante. I don't know if it is an ego thing or alpha dog mentality, but i'm doubly worried now where time is of the essence and the July 1st clock keeps ticking, that BC might jump the gun to make another 'Turk' deal and not wait for someone to come to him.

[Apollo]

Most of this is pure speculation, but when is BC ever approached for a deal? He seems to be the one always pursuing and as a result has to keep upping the ante. I don't know if it is an ego thing or alpha dog mentality, but i'm doubly worried now where time is of the essence and the July 1st clock keeps ticking, that BC might jump the gun to make another 'Turk' deal and not wait for someone to come to him.

Not most of it is speculation, all of it is speculation.

Speculation is not a valid argument. I can speculate the exact opposite and now we're at a standstill... If we weren't speculating we would still be at standstill and so I feel compelled to ask the question, is all this speculation about things he didn't do and his personality a worthwhile undertaking?

Most of this is pure speculation, but when is BC ever approached for a deal? He seems to be the one always pursuing and as a result has to keep upping the ante.

Speculation with zero facts.

I don't know if it is an ego thing or alpha dog mentality, but i'm doubly worried now where time is of the essence and the July 1st clock keeps ticking, that BC might jump the gun to make another 'Turk' deal and not wait for someone to come to him.

I'm thinking of a word starting with S. It ends with "peculation".

[Dave]

When he first traded for TJ for Charlie V, that seemed to come out of nowhere. One day CV was a cornerstone of the franchise, the next day he was gone. Were there better offers out there, did he even check?

Similarly with the JO for Marion deal, that was rumored for a while and he seemed so dead set on it that he let Riley hijack him for the 1st round pick because Riley knew how narrow minded he was.

BC seems to make up his mind early and stick to it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Was he ever really going to sign Marion long term, didn't it always seem like a rental. How early did he zero in on Turk and disregard everything else.

Most of this is pure speculation, but when is BC ever approached for a deal? He seems to be the one always pursuing and as a result has to keep upping the ante. I don't know if it is an ego thing or alpha dog mentality, but i'm doubly worried now where time is of the essence and the July 1st clock keeps ticking, that BC might jump the gun to make another 'Turk' deal and not wait for someone to come to him.

(1) Jermaine -- I don't think there were any other deals out there that offered the immediate cap flexibility Bryan Colangelo wanted and nobody was offering talent. Miami were the only team pursuing Jermaine at that point ... Cleveland were earlier in the year, before Toronto acquired him, but dropped their interest after their outstanding play during the regular season ... So Riley had BC pinned in a corner. Riley held all the leverage and as a result was able to dictate negotiations.

Does that mean Colangelo should have made the trade? Absolutely not, the cost was too high, he should have walked away from the deal and kept Jermaine. The Raptors would be in a much better position today if he had done that.

(2) TJ Ford for Jermaine -- I thought Bryan Colangelo investigated his options thoroughly and felt that Jermaine was the best trade available. Right or wrong, I thought BC felt Jermaine offered the most.

There were a lot of reports of Colangelo talking Ford trades after that season and they involved several teams. I think this was an evaluation problem (of Jermaine and the Raptors post-Jermaine) rather than Colangelo not looking at all of his options.

(3) Charlie for TJ -- I don't know, maybe ... I liked the trade though. I loved it from the first moment I hear about it and thought the criticisms of it (trading a big for a small) were off base. So I have no problem with this move. It improved the Raptors considerably.

Anyone have any ideas on what Toronto could have gotten instead of Ford for Charlie Villanueva?

[mo-sales]

Point taken.

Moving on, here is my list of under the radar players I would like to see thrown in if we were to absorb a big contract via the Banks/Evans/Belli expiring contracts.

New Orleans - Julian Wright
GS - Brandon Wright
Charlotte - DJ Augustin, Tyrus Thomas
Philly - Thad Young, Lou Williams
Orlando- Mikael Pietrus
Indi - Dahntay Jones
LAC - Deandre Jordan
Houston - Kyle Lowry
Miami - Mario Chalmers
Lakers - Shannon Brown

[Aris]

Hey Apollo, good thread,
I'm sure people are going to be opposed to this but I actually like Arenas and believe he is the most obtainable due to his contract and Washington's situation. Arenas is a slasher/scorer and a big name player that can take pressure off of Bosh and hopefully convince him to sta in T.O. By upgraging the PG position it allows us to keep developing DeRozan and Weems which I think have the potential to reach Igudala type players. I only like this trade if Bosh agrees to stay in T.O and it involves sending Jose to Washington .

[Apollo]

Point taken.

Moving on, here is my list of under the radar players I would like to see thrown in if we were to absorb a big contract via the Banks/Evans/Belli expiring contracts.

New Orleans - Julian Wright
GS - Brandon Wright
Charlotte - DJ Augustin, Tyrus Thomas
Philly - Thad Young, Lou Williams
Orlando- Mikael Pietrus
Indi - Dahntay Jones
LAC - Deandre Jordan
Houston - Kyle Lowry
Miami - Mario Chalmers
Lakers - Shannon Brown

Why is Charlotte looking for expiring contracts? Aren't they on the way up, not down?
Why would Philly want to keep their big bloated contracts and instead move their good contracts for expiring contracts?
What benefit are expiring contracts to Orlando?
Why would Pacers or Clippers move young guys for expiring contracts when they're in rebuild mode?
Why would Houston feel compelled to ditch a guy making $2M/yr when he himself would have an expiring contract...If Houston wants to pick up his option.
Why would Miami want to ditch cap for 2011 when this is their off-season when they move above the cap never to return? Also, Chalmers has an excellent contract and is a good player and so who would want to ditch that?
Expiring contracts don't help the Lakers. They're perennial contender and they have an owner with extremely deep pockets... Then there's the fact that Shannon Brown would have an expiring contract if he decides to pick up his player option.