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Raptors 2016 Trade Deadline - Dec 15th 2015 - Feb 18th 2016 @ 3pm EST

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  • magoon wrote: View Post
    I was listening to this on my commute this morning and while Lowe thinks that the Raps should definitely try to make a move, he also makes the point that he specifically went looking to see what fours were available (as he of course recognized that as the Raptors' big weakness) and couldn't find a power forward who was a viable trade target, who moved the needle to make a trade worthwhile, and who the Raptors could get with their assets. (He seemed to be looking more at the idea of trading for Blake Griffin if the Clippers get trounced in the second round again this year and decide to move in a new direction.)
    See, even Lowe reads RR to get ideas

    I don't even charge him
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • Still don't get the hype of TJones. In my opinion he doesn't help in the short term (I personally would rather give the minutes to Scola and 2Pat). And in the long term he'll be commanding about $15M a year and he's basically been a bench big his whole career. We could probably get Scola back for another cheap contract and that's good enough for me until 2017 when Ibaka will probably be available.

      If we can't get someone like Horford or Batum, then I'd also try to see if GSW would be willing to move Barnes. He's not really needed there and is going to be asking for a big pay check. They might be willing to give him up for an asset (like the LAC pick and some prospect like Bebe or Powell).

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      • LJ2 wrote: View Post
        I hope Horford realizes that staying in Atlanta isn't going to improve his chances of winning a championship. He's sort of peaked and the countdown begins to when his ability to play at a high level is declining. If he prioritizes making a run at the finals he needs to leave Atlanta. They already have hit their ceiling with that roster.
        Horford is a big, and bigs have longer shelf-life than wings and guards do in the NBA. He can sign a five-year monster contract this summer and see how it goes with Atlanta, and at the end of it he'll be 34 and able to sign a small deal with a contender if Atlanta never really hits contention, or maybe Atlanta trades him part of the way through the contract.

        Seriously: Al Horford will be eligible for thirty million dollars per year this summer, and Atlanta can offer him five years to everybody else's four. He probably wants to compete for a championship at some point. I don't think he, or any player, wants it badly enough to give up thirty million fucking dollars when he's already on a decent mid-level contending team.

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        • magoon wrote: View Post
          There's already a lot of talk that the Hawks might move Jeff Teague to Utah (they need to pick one of Teague or Schroeder to be the starting PG going forward). If that's the case, it makes it less likely that they'll trade Horford rather than more likely - I mean, even though they're not as good as last year, they're still a decent third in a competitive East. A Teague trade (for more young players from Utah, which is what Utah has in spades, and which can be slotted into the Hawks system rather easily) makes sense if the purpose is "make sure to have extra cap room to give Al Horford all the money."
          I don't think that can be the purpose. Cap space isn't a problem for them it seems. They have just under $53M in guaranteed salary for next year. They can give Al whatever he wants already.

          I think this is Atlanta realizing they're kind fucked. They're very good, but still look a tier below contender status. They'd be afraid to move Horford or Millsap, so that leaves one of Teague or Schroeder. Teague's value probably won't get higher, and Schroeder is younger and makes less, so I guess that makes sense that Teague is the odd man out.

          So I think this move is more to try and take a step forward, which if it has anything to do with Horford I think it's more about showing they're trying to improve the team so that he doesn't feel like he's been on the same treadmill for 9 years.

          Sadly I think the choice they don't want to make is the right one, and I don't just say that because I'd love Horford (or even Millsap) on this team. Those 2 are just an odd fit. It's not like their skills don't mesh, but the lack of size continues to be a real issue, and it's hard to work around especially against bigger/better teams.

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          • magoon wrote: View Post
            I was listening to this on my commute this morning and while Lowe thinks that the Raps should definitely try to make a move, he also makes the point that he specifically went looking to see what fours were available (as he of course recognized that as the Raptors' big weakness) and couldn't find a power forward who was a viable trade target, who moved the needle to make a trade worthwhile, and who the Raptors could get with their assets. (He seemed to be looking more at the idea of trading for Blake Griffin if the Clippers get trounced in the second round again this year and decide to move in a new direction.)
            Not a griffin fan. But he is fun to watch

            Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

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            • Snooch wrote: View Post
              Not a griffin fan. But he is fun to watch

              Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk
              I'm torn on Griffin. I do believe that early in his career, he was overhyped. His athleticism outweighed the glaring deficiencies in his game, but everyone loved the dunks anyway.

              But I also think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for adding to his game over the past few seasons.

              Part of me is really intrigued by the idea of Griffin in a Raptors jersey. At the very least, we'd have waaaaay more ESPN broadcasts to look forward to

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              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                I'm torn on Griffin. I do believe that early in his career, he was overhyped. His athleticism outweighed the glaring deficiencies in his game, but everyone loved the dunks anyway.

                But I also think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for adding to his game over the past few seasons.

                Part of me is really intrigued by the idea of Griffin in a Raptors jersey. At the very least, we'd have waaaaay more ESPN broadcasts to look forward to
                My inclination would be to let this thing play out, let Griffin hit rock bottom in terms of PR and fan opinion, then pick him up and be the team that helps him rebuild his image. He has all the tools to be incredibly good. Just needs the mindset.
                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  I'm torn on Griffin. I do believe that early in his career, he was overhyped. His athleticism outweighed the glaring deficiencies in his game, but everyone loved the dunks anyway.

                  But I also think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for adding to his game over the past few seasons.

                  Part of me is really intrigued by the idea of Griffin in a Raptors jersey. At the very least, we'd have waaaaay more ESPN broadcasts to look forward to
                  I agree that he was over-hyped in the beginning, but he has rounded his game very nicely over the years. He would be a fantastic get but LA would likely want ALOT right now.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • Barolt wrote: View Post
                    My inclination would be to let this thing play out, let Griffin hit rock bottom in terms of PR and fan opinion, then pick him up and be the team that helps him rebuild his image. He has all the tools to be incredibly good. Just needs the mindset.
                    Wow! LMFAO.
                    The clippers are rolling without him...
                    A few pages ago in this or another thread somebody posted a gif of Griffin grabbing his trainers head and forcibly making it look like he was giving him head during a televised game, and this recent physical assault of a staff member , which crossed a major line and was also something he sought by following the guy outside... AND HE DIDNT CONSIDER HIS TEAM ONE BIT.

                    I find it flat out laughable that this is a player somebody would want.. and it is not mentioned once that he without a doubt has character issues , yet Morris is just a bad human being in the eyes of many here for assaulting a stranger and we don't even know the whole story... or is it because he threw a TOWEL at his coach.. Jesus. Smh.

                    I want nothing to do with Griffin , no latter how talented he is, I feel is is more of the problem than the solution in LA ... unbelievable.

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                    • planetmars wrote: View Post
                      Still don't get the hype of TJones. In my opinion he doesn't help in the short term (I personally would rather give the minutes to Scola and 2Pat). And in the long term he'll be commanding about $15M a year and he's basically been a bench big his whole career. We could probably get Scola back for another cheap contract and that's good enough for me until 2017 when Ibaka will probably be available.

                      If we can't get someone like Horford or Batum, then I'd also try to see if GSW would be willing to move Barnes. He's not really needed there and is going to be asking for a big pay check. They might be willing to give him up for an asset (like the LAC pick and some prospect like Bebe or Powell).
                      Bench big his whole career? He started almost every game for a 54 win HOU team a couple years ago.

                      Ibaka will be available (maybe) to teams who have cap space. Also known as "not us" unless we move on from Lowry (and even then it would be very tough to clear enough cap room).

                      If we want to build on the strength of the core of this team, and take another step, we need to consolidate our less important assets, like our prospects, some of our draft picks (I'd never advocate for emptying the cupboards like BKN for obvious reasons), and expirings we won't be able to re-sign. I think with the year Scola is having he gets more than the 3.5M or so we can offer him this summer, and Biyombo will earn more than the 3.4M we can offer him, and maybe we manage to keep one of them for the MLE (but maybe not). To play over the cap you have to trade expirings that you either don't want to or can't re-sign, and the super bargain contracts these guys signed ensures they likely won't be re-signing with us, ironically.

                      So to me the ideal trade would not include any of the core three (KL, DD, JV), and none of our long term role players (CJ, DC, PP, TR). Ideally I'd hope to be able to re-sign Biyombo for the MLE, but that's a risky proposition. JJ is kind of the perfect role player and we have early Bird rights for him, meaning we can offer him a deal starting close to 5M, which I would think would be his market value. But any of BB, JJ or Scola are obvious candidates for salary ballast because they all come with question marks whether we can retain them this summer. It helps that they all have replacements waiting in the wings, so to speak, with BeBe and Bruno/Powell probably capable of stepping into bigger roles next year, and with us trading for a PF to take Scola's minutes.

                      You CAN trade a guy like Patterson, but then you run the risk of losing Scola this summer and not having any real backup PF.

                      In any case, that leaves us with three likely salary matching contracts all right around 2.5-3M in value. It is difficult in season to make trades that have a lot of players going one way and only one coming back, so unless we find a good match where a couple minimum salary deals come back our way, it seems likely only one or two of those contracts are used in a trade. That gives us a very real salary range that we can target in terms of who is available in a deal, and it is basically anyone making under 8M is achievable moving two guys and anyone under 4M by moving one guy. You can go a little higher if you start including prospect salaries. That salary range leaves very few veteran contracts (although there are a couple) eligible, and really shines a spotlight on the rookie scale salary range, making one particular set of players an obvious target - pending RFA's, who represent a potential salary problem for their teams (with so many bidders this summer some RFA's will get overpaid), and are often not thought that highly of as they are players who did not get an extension the previous summer. These are also players who are entering but not quite into their prime, meaning they probably are already positive contributors but also have room for real growth.

                      This is the thought process that led me to guys like Terrence Jones or Motiejunas from HOU (who have even more of a problem on their hands with not one but TWO guys going to RFA who play the same position).
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Barolt wrote: View Post
                        My inclination would be to let this thing play out, let Griffin hit rock bottom in terms of PR and fan opinion, then pick him up and be the team that helps him rebuild his image. He has all the tools to be incredibly good. Just needs the mindset.
                        But why hasn't he demonstrated that mindset already? It's not like he's still a fresh face. He's also been around a supposedly good leader in Doc, and another one in player form in Chris Paul. And he's still a moron. He plays like a moron, and he acts like a moron.

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                        • breakin_ankles wrote: View Post
                          Wow! LMFAO.
                          The clippers are rolling without him...
                          A few pages ago in this or another thread somebody posted a gif of Griffin grabbing his trainers head and forcibly making it look like he was giving him head during a televised game, and this recent physical assault of a staff member , which crossed a major line and was also something he sought by following the guy outside... AND HE DIDNT CONSIDER HIS TEAM ONE BIT.

                          I find it flat out laughable that this is a player somebody would want.. and it is not mentioned once that he without a doubt has character issues , yet Morris is just a bad human being in the eyes of many here for assaulting a stranger and we don't even know the whole story... or is it because he threw a TOWEL at his coach.. Jesus. Smh.

                          I want nothing to do with Griffin , no latter how talented he is, I feel is is more of the problem than the solution in LA ... unbelievable.
                          Well, there's one big difference to me. Blake Griffin is an all-NBA talent if he figures things out. Markieff Morris is a decent NBA player if he figures things out.

                          There's a lot of decent NBA players, there's only a handful of all-NBA talents.
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            But why hasn't he demonstrated that mindset already? It's not like he's still a fresh face. He's also been around a supposedly good leader in Doc, and another one in player form in Chris Paul. And he's still a moron. He plays like a moron, and he acts like a moron.
                            Charles Oakley did a lot of dumb shit on and off the court too (e.g. fighting Tyrone Hill over a gambling debt in the middle of a playoff series, lol), and we loved the guy.

                            Just saying

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                            • Barolt wrote: View Post
                              Well, there's one big difference to me. Blake Griffin is an all-NBA talent if he figures things out. Markieff Morris is a decent NBA player if he figures things out.

                              There's a lot of decent NBA players, there's only a handful of all-NBA talents.
                              That's where I'm leaning too. His talent outweighs his (relatively) poor decision-making.

                              It might even serve him well to get out of the LA spotlight.

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                              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                I'm torn on Griffin. I do believe that early in his career, he was overhyped. His athleticism outweighed the glaring deficiencies in his game, but everyone loved the dunks anyway.

                                But I also think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for adding to his game over the past few seasons.

                                Part of me is really intrigued by the idea of Griffin in a Raptors jersey. At the very least, we'd have waaaaay more ESPN broadcasts to look forward to
                                And way more technical fouls. And you think it's been frustrating watching DeMar take bad shots? Griffin's evolution shows how dumb he is. He just keeps taking more bad shots. Like, the book on him is make him settle for jumpers, and he just seems to think he'll prove everyone wrong....

                                % FGAs -> FG% from 16-23 fit since coming into the league:
                                .154 -> .335
                                .223 -> .382
                                .229 -> .343
                                .267 -> .372
                                .378 -> .404
                                .458 -> .399

                                *God that looks ugly. That last line...his %FGAs from that range is higher than his FG%...that's freakin U-G-L-Y.

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