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Thread: Players the Raptors Should NOT Get

  1. #1
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    Default Players the Raptors Should NOT Get

    I've seen a lot of talk about the players getting this player and that player, and I'm astounded at some of them. I've been saying it on other individual threads, but I thought I'd put it all in one place. Keep in mind that I'm not necessarily saying these players aren't good (sometimes I am), but simply are not right for the Raptors.

    Players the Raptors should never, ever get:

    David Lee - Would be an absolutely horrible fit in a sign and trade for Bosh. Would give the Raptors not only the worst defensive frontcourt in the league, but possibly the worst of all time. If Bosh gives the Raptors 40 wins (45 if healthy), then a player who is a worse defender, scorer and passer than Bosh would most definitely send the Raptors back to the lottery, but with yet another long term contracted player who doesn't make the team better. As the best player on the Knicks, he led them to 29 wins. And he actually had better defensive players around him.

    Devin Harris - David Harris isn't a bad player, but he is extremely overrated. He does one thing well, and that's score. He's not a good shooter, defender or passer, and he's been injury prone his entire career. His teammates in New Jersey have constantly complained about his unwillingness to pass the ball and penchant for forcing shots. The fact that he had an All-Star calibre center, and a few half decent players on his team and still was able to lead his team to 12 wins tells you something. If the Raptors had no half decent PGs, then I can see it, but they already have two pretty good ones. Harris would not be an upgrade.

    Rodney Stuckey - Why Raptor fans have such an obsession with shoot first PG's who don't pass much, I will never understand. Again, he's not a bad player and would be pretty good in the right situation. That situation is not the Raptors. Again, he's really not an upgrade over what they have now. He's extremely similar to Devin Harris. He's a high volume scorer who shoots a low percentage, especially from beynod the arc.

    Baron Davis - (cut and pasted from another thread, because I"m lazy) Davis is a 30 year old, generally overweight player who relies mostly on athleticism, has missed at least 15 games 5 of the last 7 years, is often unmotivated, has a CAREER .409 FG% and has never been a very good defender. The Clippers biggest mistake in the last ten years (and there's been a lot of them), was overpaying Baron Davis. He's basically only had two good years in his ten years in the NBA, and that was on a Golden State team where he was given completely free reign. There's probably a reason he's not in the Clippers future plans. Nor should he be. In anyone's.

    Corey Maggette - (cut and pasted from another thread, because I"m still lazy) Maggette came into the league with a lot of potential, but continually playing for lottery teams has made him into an extremely selfish player who stopped playing defense years ago and has picked up so many bad habits playing for bad teams he will never be able to contribute on a contending team. He needs the ball all the time to be effective because he's a volume scorer, but he doesn't do anything else. He's the anti-Shane Battier.

    Michael Beasley - A very talented offensive player who is extremely inconsistent and doesn't play very good defense (notice the theme, here?). Pairing him with either Bargnani or Turkoglu would be bad. Pairing him with both would be disastrous.

    Charlie Villenueva - He's a better rebounding, worse defensive, Andrea Bargnani, who avoids the paint at all costs and might actually make Bargnani look consistent. Enough said?

    Jeff Green - Bear in mind, I like Jeff Green, but as a PF, he's not very good. He's a poor rebounder and defender at that position. Bosh would be a perfect fit in Oklahoma, but unless the Raptors are able to move Turkoglu and play Green at SF, they should NOT get him in return.

    Ben Gordon - Gordon would be a fantastic third guard who could give 20 mpg of instant offense, making $5 million a season. As it is, he's a 6'1 SG who scores, but does absolutely nothing else, and he's making more than $45 million over the next four years. And just to keep this theme going, he doesn't play defense.

    If a player is not above average defensively, the Raptors should not even look in their direction. I don't care what else they do well, the Raptors were the worst defensive team in the league. Adding mediocre to poor defensive players is not going to improve the team. It's going to make them a perennial lottery team. If that is your goal, great. If it's not, then why take on players who are not going to improve your team?

    And considering the Raptors were at their best when they moved the ball well, getting a shoot first PG who dominates the ball, probably isn't the smartest thing to do, is it?
    Last edited by Tim W.; Tue Apr 20th, 2010 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Spelling corrections

  2. #2
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I actually think David Lee is a better passer than Bosh. Not saying he's the answer.

    We might as well accept that the Raptors are only getting 60 cents on the dollar for Bosh. No one will be S&T away a superstar in a Chris Bosh S&T but the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I actually think David Lee is a better passer than Bosh. Not saying he's the answer.

    We might as well accept that the Raptors are only getting 60 cents on the dollar for Bosh. No one will be S&T away a superstar in a Chris Bosh S&T but the Raptors.
    Its true that the raps won't get Chris' actual value in return for him, but I for one just hope who ever the Raptors take in return for him would be at the very least his defensive equal, don't really care if the said player's offensive abilities are a far cry from CB4's.

  4. #4
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I would rather the player be an upgrade to the defense. I don't care about the offense. If they can get it done with Amir in there on offense than they can get it done with most other defensive big men. No offense to Amir, I like him, but he's limited on offense. Best replacement would be Noah. Not straight up though, as part of a package.

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    I think the Raptors will be lucky to get 60 cents on the dollar for Bosh, but it's not necessarily about how much, but what. Either get players who are good for the team, or find a third team to bring in on the deal. Don't take players back simply to get players back. Make sure their the right ones.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    i'm sure david harris is a good player...


    whoever he is.

    hahaha... nah, i'm just buggin'

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    60 cents on the dollar would be a monumental achievement. We're getting a draft pick and maybe a bench player. The bench player will be a hard sell. What leverage does Colangelo have? Let's say Bosh wants to go to Chicago and he wants his extra 30 million. What can Colangelo do other than play chicken over the 30 million? Chicago, having been chosen by Bosh, can sit back and see who blinks first - Bosh or Colangelo. Maybe they get impatient and sweeten the pot a bit to get a deal done quickly. Once Bosh makes a decision, Colangelo will have to take what he can get. The best he can hope for is Bosh comes to him with a short list of teams and he gets to negotiate with 2 or 3 teams. But what if Bosh decides, being a free agent and all, that he'd like to go to a specific team?

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Cory Maggette may not be a great defender, but he's better than Hedo.

    He's also not a volume scorer. He averaged 12 FGA, shot 50 FG%, 8.7 FTA, shot over 80 FT%, shot over 30% from behind the arch and scored 17 PPG in 30 MPG. Plus, 5 RBG and 3 APG.

    As for his reputation as being a selfish player with a low bball IQ, that was his label was 5 years ago. He has improved as a player, but has unfortunately never played on any good teams (except the 2006 Clippers).

    IMO, Cory Maggette is still a very good player who would be a boarder line all-star on an Eastern Conference team.

    Note: Maggette has never had the benefit of playing for an EC team and I think he should the chance to do so - with the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie SCP0389's Avatar
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    I think it was right on the nose I wouldnt be to estatic about having any of these guys on the team to be honest I also realize we may not have a choice but you never know we could be able to parlay one of them into a piece we desire via a 3 team trade just beacuse those guys arent a good fit for us dosent mean there not a good fit fo the rest of the 29 teams thats always an avenue BC will explore.

  10. #10
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    Cory Maggette may not be a great defender, but he's better than Hedo.

    He's also not a volume scorer. He averaged 12 FGA, shot 50 FG%, 8.7 FTA, shot over 80 FT%, shot over 30% from behind the arch and scored 17 PPG in 30 MPG. Plus, 5 RBG and 3 APG.

    As for his reputation as being a selfish player with a low bball IQ, that was his label was 5 years ago. He has improved as a player, but has unfortunately never played on any good teams (except the 2006 Clippers).

    IMO, Cory Maggette is still a very good player who would be a boarder line all-star on an Eastern Conference team.

    Note: Maggette has never had the benefit of playing for an EC team and I think he should the chance to do so - with the Raptors.
    Maggette's FGA's number is lower because he gets fouled so much, so the don't actually count. And he is simply not a very good defender. He once had the potential to be, but years of playing on bad teams gave him way too many bad habits on that end of the floor.

    And just because he's better than Hedo doesn't mean the Raptors should get him.

  11. #11
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    i beg to differ that devin harris is not an upgrade for the raptors as previously mentioned. lets do a player-by-player comparison of jose and harris. who's a better defender? maybe there isn't a huge edge there for harris but i think harris is better at staying in front of his man because he has better lateral quicks than jose, and maybe even jack. and even if he gets beat, i think he can keep his man in front that split second more, which allows the help defense to get better positioning. ultimately, i think he provides a better first-line of defense and i feel that the main (not the only) reason our defense was crap was because of the guards. no doubt the rest of the players are not good defenders, but if u give andrea or bosh a bit more time to get set for help defense, then i think it changes things.

    on offence, yes he requires his shots and isn't pass first, but do u remember t.j. ford? say what u want about the guy, but a huge reason for the raptors success that year was because of him, and i think many ppl fail to remember that. he was lightening quick, and i'm not saying harris is as quick, but he's quicker than both jack and calderon. i think harris can get us back to those days with the drive and kick plays, which were the bread and butter for our 47-win season. sure he'll take those shots were u might go WTH, but ford did the same thing, and i think we did fine.

    many ppl compare bargs to nowitzki, and although bargs is nowhere close to nowitzki's level i thnk they are similar types of players. and i might be wrong on this one, but i think nowitzki and harris played fairly well together. yes he lead the nets to a 12-win season, but he won't be facing that same kinda role on the raptors. his passing is no doubt worst than calderon, but i think we have too many passers on the team to begin with and maybe hedo will play better having the ball more in his hands if harris is on the floor.

    thoughts?

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    Whats wrong with B-Easy?
    my favourite sign-&-trade situation involves him
    sure he deosnt play hard every night, but the potential is there..
    i doubt Triano can bring out the best in him but its good talent to gain after losing Bosh
    him, Haslem, our condional back, and their 1st would be a great haul for Bosh

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    Quote bodmon wrote: View Post
    i beg to differ that devin harris is not an upgrade for the raptors as previously mentioned. lets do a player-by-player comparison of jose and harris. who's a better defender? maybe there isn't a huge edge there for harris but i think harris is better at staying in front of his man because he has better lateral quicks than jose, and maybe even jack. and even if he gets beat, i think he can keep his man in front that split second more, which allows the help defense to get better positioning. ultimately, i think he provides a better first-line of defense and i feel that the main (not the only) reason our defense was crap was because of the guards. no doubt the rest of the players are not good defenders, but if u give andrea or bosh a bit more time to get set for help defense, then i think it changes things.

    on offence, yes he requires his shots and isn't pass first, but do u remember t.j. ford? say what u want about the guy, but a huge reason for the raptors success that year was because of him, and i think many ppl fail to remember that. he was lightening quick, and i'm not saying harris is as quick, but he's quicker than both jack and calderon. i think harris can get us back to those days with the drive and kick plays, which were the bread and butter for our 47-win season. sure he'll take those shots were u might go WTH, but ford did the same thing, and i think we did fine.

    many ppl compare bargs to nowitzki, and although bargs is nowhere close to nowitzki's level i thnk they are similar types of players. and i might be wrong on this one, but i think nowitzki and harris played fairly well together. yes he lead the nets to a 12-win season, but he won't be facing that same kinda role on the raptors. his passing is no doubt worst than calderon, but i think we have too many passers on the team to begin with and maybe hedo will play better having the ball more in his hands if harris is on the floor.

    thoughts?
    Harris is a better defensive player than Calderon, but his penchant for not passing can be a team killer. And I do remember Ford, but Ford could at least run an offense, and he did pass the ball. Harris would not be playing PG if he were a few inches taller. He doesn't make players around him better, and that should really be a prerequisite for a PG.

    And the people who compare Bargnani to Dirk know very little about basketball, quite frankly. Other than the fact that they are both white, from Europe, tall and can shoot the three, there is nothing similar about them. It's a nice idea that Harris would be able to create for Bargnani (who needs others to create for him), but Harris is simply not a very good passer, for a PG.

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    Colangelo yesterday again failed to articulate a vision for the type of team the Raptors should be. Maybe it wasnt the forum but I havent really heard him expound on this subject which is really the basis on which one makes trades and draft picks. As has been noted in other places and even here, one can only check the successful teams thru the years to recognize that "defense" is the one absolute neccessity to consistent and the ultimate prize. To acquire/keep players who have shown no proclivity in this area is assinine (unless some other factor is so overwhelming that it is difficult to pass up). Good to great coaching is another imperative (I am think Sloan) who buys into this philosophy of defense first and toughness of body and mind of the majority on the team. Another point to be articulated is that offense in the league (mainly because of the guard play/no hand checking rule) has been both initiated and provided by the backcourt players/wing rather than the bigs.

    None of the above really hold true for our current Raps. I suggest that any thoughts of trades for Bosh and others keep these needs in mind go forward. I would be more receptive of BC's mea culpas if he would address this vision thing for the team. Fans could then accept and appreciate the building process.

    TimW is right by pointing out the flaws in the various players he listed. I would rather blow up the team, keep just a few who meet the criteria and move forward.

    My own prefrences of team content & building are the Jazz & Rockets and of course OKC. They all know what they want. I recognize that OKC got v. lucky with Durant falling into their laps (it could have been Oden) but their other picks and trades are not splashes but in keeping with the building program discipline.

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    Quote INFO wrote: View Post
    Whats wrong with B-Easy?
    my favourite sign-&-trade situation involves him
    sure he deosnt play hard every night, but the potential is there..
    i doubt Triano can bring out the best in him but its good talent to gain after losing Bosh
    him, Haslem, our condional back, and their 1st would be a great haul for Bosh
    That would be very good talent to get back for Bosh. There's no denying that. I think Colangelo should be commended if he were able to get that much back (Haslam is a free agent, and would have to agree, which is unlikely). What it doesn't do is help the current Raptor roster at all improve. If they were somehow able to trade away both Bargnani and Turkoglu, then I think Beasley would be a great addition. I don't see that happening. If the idea is to build up a bunch of pieces and lost badly until you can turn them into something better, then this would work.

    And Triano is very good at developing players. Weems,Amir and Bargnani have all shown massive improvement under Triano. What he can't do is turn a player into something he is not (turning Bargnani into a good rebounder and defensive player).

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