Game 67 - Toronto Raptors 101 - Indiana Pacers 94

[slaw]

But there's no evidence pointing to that conclusion.

Literally every regular on the team has a better DRTG without Scola than with him (except CoJo who has basically identical numbers regardless). Maybe it's the other 9 players. Or maybe it's the guy all the evidence points to.

Wait? I thought we were discussing Derozan's on/off numbers and I was hinting that maybe there are some perils to relying on on/off numbers to tell you about a player's ability?

Yeah, I absolutely agree Scola is a liability defensively but all you need to do is watch him play for 5 minutes to know that. Listing off a pile of on/off numbers isn't shedding light on the situation.

EDIT: Also, the position being implied here is that Derozan is somewhere worse (?) or something defensively based on the comparison of some on/off numbers. That was what I was responding to: that it is perilous to make a case that Derozan is a poor defender based on those numbers.

[DanH]

Wait? I thought we were discussing Derozan's on/off numbers and I was hinting that maybe there are some perils to relying on on/off numbers to tell you about a player's ability?

Yeah, I absolutely agree Scola is a liability defensively but all you need to do is watch him play for 5 minutes to know that. Listing off a pile of on/off numbers isn't shedding light on the situation.

For sure, Scola is the most obvious case, and it is obvious watching him. What happens though when you watch a guy like DD, and others do, and come away with different impressions of his defence? That's where the stats come in handy.

[slaw]

For sure, Scola is the most obvious case, and it is obvious watching him. What happens though when you watch a guy like DD, and others do, and come away with different impressions of his defence? That's where the stats come in handy.

Agreed. I just don't have as much faith in on/off and +/- numbers as others. Or, at least, I'm not sure that the tell me much more than simply watching the game does.

[3inthekeon]

High minute, high usage players often have defensive issues. No coincidence DD's defensive intensity was a lot higher last night after being rested in the Bucks game.

Watching games yields only some information. Most of us follow the ball too much to see anywhere close to everything that's happening on the court.

How much we like or dislike players makes a huge difference in how we view their play on the defensive end.

[Machine]

High minute, high usage players often have defensive issues. No coincidence DD's defensive intensity was a lot higher last night after being rested in the Bucks game.

Watching games yields only some information. Most of us follow the ball too much to see anywhere close to everything that's happening on the court.

How much we like or dislike players makes a huge difference in how we view their play on the defensive end.

Yeah that last paragraph goes both ways. It was only 2 days off. There's been plenty of times where he has had 2 days off and not brought the same intensity.

[JWash]

High minute, high usage players often have defensive issues. No coincidence DD's defensive intensity was a lot higher last night after being rested in the Bucks game.

Watching games yields only some information. Most of us follow the ball too much to see anywhere close to everything that's happening on the court.

How much we like or dislike players makes a huge difference in how we view their play on the defensive end.

So true.

[3inthekeon]

Yeah that last paragraph goes both ways. It was only 2 days off. There's been plenty of times where he has had 2 days off and not brought the same intensity.

That is true. Maybe it was something psychological as well, but that was the best defensive effort from him I can remember this year.

[Raptor Jesus]

New Game thread anyone?