Everything Round 1 (2016)

[Bonus Jonas]

Yeah. Casey is the number 1 culprit tho. As head coach, you should have final say. He is guilty of encouraging shit habits and not enforcing good habits. Demar is bad too tho, yeah.

I'm okay with letting both leave in the summer.

Messina here we come

[Jangles]

I'm okay with letting both leave in the summer.

Messina here we come

And if neither go, I'm okay with Masai getting the boot soon after as well.

[iblastoff]

Game 7: Toronto Raptors vs. Indiana Pacers - May. 1/16 8:00 PM EST

What bugs me about game 6 is how little fight this team put up.

Even the clippers, down their two stars, at least went out admirably vs Portland (who are kinda similar to the pacers in terms of having one legit player alongside an emerging McCollum)


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[Mack North]

What do 'all-star numbers' get you come playoff time? SFA.

Well, it gets you a better seed in the regular season, but obviously that doesn't mean much with this group.

[MACK11]

Even if we do win, this entire team needs some serious help

[big boi]

I can agree with most of what you're saying, about the head coach and JV being more involved in the gameplan, but I can't agree that you let DeMar walk for nothing. Like it or not, the guy is gonna get paid a lot of dough, which means he's valuable to a lot of teams, not just ours(and of course, that's debatable). There would have to be a solid backup plan in place for them to let him walk for nothing. I just don't see it happening.

I don't care at all if he gets paid. I think he's a nice guy - good luck to him. I just don't want the raptors to be the team to do it. And I think if he signs for a lot of money he won't have any trade value, in fact based off his playoff performances he may carry negative trade value whereby we'd have to give up something to get rid of him. Now I know MU is a genius at trades a la Bargnani... But I don't know if it is possible to give DD the money he wants and to trade him for value.

And obviously, particularly if we lose this series (and I hope we don't), we need to move in another direction. We cannot come back next year with Demar and iso ball being the focus of this offense. And I would argue that we need to move in a new direction regardless of whether we lose or win this series.

Also, obviously, in a salary cap environment there is an opportunity cost to signing DD in that we don't have that cap room to go out and get someone else.

[OldSkoolCool]

Not con convinced we keep all three of those guys is kinda my issue.

No one knows what Masai might do if we lose

They are all under contract so they kinda got to stay??

___

Did some 2-7 seed searching for the last decade. This is long but please go through each year.

2015
East - 4-0, average margin of victory +9.2
West - 4-1, +4.2

2014
East - 4-0, +9.2
West - 4-3, +5.4 Memphis-OKC: game log score [2 seed/7 seed]; 100/86, 105/111 (OT), 95/98 (OT), 92/89 (OT), 99/100 (OT), 104/84, 120/109....2 seed did not lose by more than 6 points and only lost in OT. 2 seed also won games by 14, 20, and 11...

2013
East - 4-2, +14.8
West - 4-0, +18.8

2012
East - 4-1, +14
West - 4-0, +5.6

2011
East - 4-0, +8.6
West - 4-2, +7.2

2010
East - 4-0, +9.3
West - 2-4 (Spurs 7 seed vs Mavs 2 seed)...its the Spurs, -0.5 for 2 seed

2009
East - 4-3, +4.3: Celtics/Bulls: Game logs (2 seed/7 seed); 103/105 (OT), 118/115, 107/86, 118/121 (2OT), 106/104 (OT), 127/128 (3OT), 109/99. All losses came in 1 OT, 2 OT or 3 OT games with a margin of -2.0, biggest loss for 2 seed? 3 points. Average win? +9.0
West - 4-1, +24.2

2008
East - 4-2, +7.0
West - 4-1, +8.8

2007
East - 4-0, +8.7
West - 4-1, +10.4

2006
East - 4-2, +3.0
West - 4-3, +6.7: Game logs (Suns 2 seed/Lakers 7 seed); 107/102, 93/99, 92/99, 98/99 (OT), 114/97, 126/118 (OT), 121/90. No loss more than 7 points, 1 loss in OT. Victories by 5, 17, 8, 31.

2016 Toronto Raptors 3-3, game logs [2 seed/7seed]; 90/100, 98/87, 101/85, 83/100, 102/99, 83/101. Average margin? -2.8

So in the past decade, the 2 seed has historically taken care of business, unless you have faced the Spurs as the 7 seed. Also, in any 4-3 series win (3 times in 20 series) for the 2 seed, the average margin was +5.4, +9, and +6.7. Also in losses, at least 1 or all were losses in Overtime, with no loss greater than 7 points in the last decade.

Average margin of losses for the Raptors? -15.0!!

Looking at the quality of competition as the 7 seed tight (4-3) or upset series you have: Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, and Memphis...we are facing the Indiana Pacers....

Win or lose this game, this core of DD-Casey is done. We are putting up a historically bad 2 seed performance. 56 wins means nothing because everyone's record at the start of playoffs is 0-0...BUT, if you are a second seed, you should be walking past your opponent, or they are beating you in the biggest nail biters in OT a couple of games. Not getting blown out by an average of 15...

Sorry Raptors, you're so much more talented than the Pacers so you should still be going to the next round on Monday, but MU has to walk away from this core and go in a different direction at all costs...

[KHD]

^ yep.

this is a hilariously embarassing performance, win or lose tomorrow.

[planetmars]

I'm trying to be optimistic about this game, but it's feeling like Brooklyn all over again. The sad thing is that the Pacers aren't that good. At least the Nets had some firepower in guys like Johnson and Pierce. Besides George they have mediocre talent. Ellis can score but he's so small and plays no defense. Hill is just slow. Pacers have absolutely no front court depth yet out hustle and out rebound many of our guys.

Ultimately though if it comes down to a last second shot like it did two years ago.. I hope Casey calls the play on the right side of the court this time. That would show signs of improvement from him.

[MixxAOR]

time to bless this thread.

[Barolt]

So, if we win in our best performance of the playoffs, do we all keep the Pacers avatars for the second round?

[rocwell]

So, if we win in our best performance of the playoffs, do we all keep the Pacers avatars for the second round?

[Bendit]

So, if we win in our best performance of the playoffs, do we all keep the Pacers avatars for the second round?

I am a bit confused....why do so many have the Pacers logo for their avatar? Did you guys lose a bet or .......

[MixxAOR]

So, if we win in our best performance of the playoffs, do we all keep the Pacers avatars for the second round?

Just keep it for lols

[Bonus Jonas]

They are all under contract so they kinda got to stay??

___

Did some 2-7 seed searching for the last decade. This is long but please go through each year.

2015
East - 4-0, average margin of victory +9.2
West - 4-1, +4.2

2014
East - 4-0, +9.2
West - 4-3, +5.4 Memphis-OKC: game log score [2 seed/7 seed]; 100/86, 105/111 (OT), 95/98 (OT), 92/89 (OT), 99/100 (OT), 104/84, 120/109....2 seed did not lose by more than 6 points and only lost in OT. 2 seed also won games by 14, 20, and 11...

2013
East - 4-2, +14.8
West - 4-0, +18.8

2012
East - 4-1, +14
West - 4-0, +5.6

2011
East - 4-0, +8.6
West - 4-2, +7.2

2010
East - 4-0, +9.3
West - 2-4 (Spurs 7 seed vs Mavs 2 seed)...its the Spurs, -0.5 for 2 seed

2009
East - 4-3, +4.3: Celtics/Bulls: Game logs (2 seed/7 seed); 103/105 (OT), 118/115, 107/86, 118/121 (2OT), 106/104 (OT), 127/128 (3OT), 109/99. All losses came in 1 OT, 2 OT or 3 OT games with a margin of -2.0, biggest loss for 2 seed? 3 points. Average win? +9.0
West - 4-1, +24.2

2008
East - 4-2, +7.0
West - 4-1, +8.8

2007
East - 4-0, +8.7
West - 4-1, +10.4

2006
East - 4-2, +3.0
West - 4-3, +6.7: Game logs (Suns 2 seed/Lakers 7 seed); 107/102, 93/99, 92/99, 98/99 (OT), 114/97, 126/118 (OT), 121/90. No loss more than 7 points, 1 loss in OT. Victories by 5, 17, 8, 31.

2016 Toronto Raptors 3-3, game logs [2 seed/7seed]; 90/100, 98/87, 101/85, 83/100, 102/99, 83/101. Average margin? -2.8

So in the past decade, the 2 seed has historically taken care of business, unless you have faced the Spurs as the 7 seed. Also, in any 4-3 series win (3 times in 20 series) for the 2 seed, the average margin was +5.4, +9, and +6.7. Also in losses, at least 1 or all were losses in Overtime, with no loss greater than 7 points in the last decade.

Average margin of losses for the Raptors? -15.0!!

Looking at the quality of competition as the 7 seed tight (4-3) or upset series you have: Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, and Memphis...we are facing the Indiana Pacers....

Win or lose this game, this core of DD-Casey is done. We are putting up a historically bad 2 seed performance. 56 wins means nothing because everyone's record at the start of playoffs is 0-0...BUT, if you are a second seed, you should be walking past your opponent, or they are beating you in the biggest nail biters in OT a couple of games. Not getting blown out by an average of 15...

Sorry Raptors, you're so much more talented than the Pacers so you should still be going to the next round on Monday, but MU has to walk away from this core and go in a different direction at all costs...

Being under contract doesn't mean you have to stay... Vasquez was under contract with us this season. Trades happen.

And the second part of your post explains why I think there will be major changes, especially if we lose.