The 2016 Offseason thread

[DanH]

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess we gotta roll with what we have. Raptors kill me with their "gotta keep the guys together and grow as a team" mentality, especially when you see other teams throw talent together and win it all, time and time again.
It's frustrating seeing other players actually want to go to teams so they can chase championship rings while ignoring us completely. Nothing changed after getting to the ECF except the size of DeRozan's fat contract. And if the Vets don't see Toronto as a place they can win ... then how much confidence are we supposed to have with our team?

But GSW won it all with the keep the guys together model. Now, they also added Durant this summer, but the year they won it they did it by sticking to formula, and won 73 games last year by sticking to formula. The Spurs have largely won their championships by just keeping their guys and adding only fringe pieces.

The Raps obviously have to improve, but ultimately, keeping your current contributors is not some flawed strategy. It's obviously not the only one, looking at MIA and CLE, but maybe throwing talent together isn't the pattern there, it's just LeBron James.

[DanH]

So, Anthony Randolph? I know he's been brought up before, and I don't recall if I dismissed it out of hand, but I've been digging up his numbers from the past.

Apparently he was a solid defender, statistically, at least. Positive DBPM each of the last 3 years he played. He really struggled offensively (had no shot) but reports are that he has developed a tremendous three pointer overseas (50% shooter on over 2 attempts a game). Might be worth a shot as PF depth with the MLE.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Trade Kyle Lowry and assets for Favors+Lyles and go after Westbrook or Lowry next free agency.
Lots of point guards available this time next year.

if we let lowry go why would he sign with us the next year.. we may not even have enough in salary to sign him with the next cap raise....


Additionally it is a guards league. If you realy wanna get westbrook you get him next free agency

[Apollo]

That's the other issue though. It's telegraphed, so how much value can they get? If they are lucky they'll find a team like the Knicks in the Melo trade, who will throw away assets for no reason. But even then the Knicks had assurances that there would be an extension for Melo in that trade. No such surety for any team trading for Westbrook. Even if Westbrook says he wants to be in a certain city, he's seemingly volatile enough that he might change his mind after a season there. Big risk for teams to give up assets for him.

Ujiri proved in Denver that it is possible to get a good return in such a situation. I mean he essentially fleeced the Knicks back then when you consider the situation.

To me it makes sense for the Knicks to go after him but they won't be able to dish out the same quality of assets this time. The Celtics would make sense. The Lakers would depending on what his goals really are.

[c-troop]

But GSW won it all with the keep the guys together model...

The Raps obviously have to improve, but ultimately, keeping your current contributors is not some flawed strategy. It's obviously not the only one, looking at MIA and CLE, but maybe throwing talent together isn't the pattern there, it's just LeBron James.

Cleveland didn't win until LeBron came back. We could trade Lowry away and resign him. CLE took a risk, and so did MIA. I mean, heck, they didn't even win the championship first year with the South Beach Trio. GSW drafted well and got lucky. Curry had shakey ankles and wasn't even #1 in his class, that's pure luck.

[KHD]

The Raps obviously have to improve, but ultimately, keeping your current contributors is not some flawed strategy. It's obviously not the only one, looking at MIA and CLE, but maybe throwing talent together isn't the pattern there, it's just LeBron James.

No, but it's also a bit off to say "keeping guys together" is the pattern.

Really the pattern is acquiring (by "throwing together" or by development) and keeping elite level talent.

At the end of the day we just need more of that, end of story.

[3inthekeon]

I don't think I said anything there in a negative manner at all, but hey you're entitled to your opinion. I'm actually a pretty positive person or I'd be on this site for majority of the day arguing your rather rude comment.

This years free agency seems like something MU wasn't prepared for as the going prices were not something we were able to compete with.

How is this not a negative comment? Could you explain the "MU wasn't prepared for" part further? To me that smacks of insinuating incompetence or at the very least, lack of foresight. Raptors org employs people a lot more knowledgeable than you or I. They were fully prepared.

It was general fandom that was unprepared for the size of contracts being handed out this year.

I could argue the opposite. MU prepared for this years sticker shock by spending much of his cap space last year, when prices were much lower. He tried to make moves but was not willing to overpay by mortgaging the future for the present. And he's willing to wait it out until the right price point comes along.

[TrueTorontoFan]

But GSW won it all with the keep the guys together model. Now, they also added Durant this summer, but the year they won it they did it by sticking to formula, and won 73 games last year by sticking to formula. The Spurs have largely won their championships by just keeping their guys and adding only fringe pieces.

The Raps obviously have to improve, but ultimately, keeping your current contributors is not some flawed strategy. It's obviously not the only one, looking at MIA and CLE, but maybe throwing talent together isn't the pattern there, it's just LeBron James.

right continuity is key in all long term successful teams... look throughout history. Players get to know and learn a system (assuming the system works). You tweak and improve your flaws without doing a total wipe every year. Shuffling the deck is very much a Colangelo type move. That's part of why we never were able to sign better agents. Not the only reason but it is part of it. Part of the reason why we didn't see improvements was because of the revolving door. Unless you can dramatically change and improve you hold steady. No point in pulling a philly. We got a top 10 pick without having to tank, and yet you all want to start dismantling our team.

Lets review our strengths (Strengths came from Masai's trades).

-Team now competes every single night.
-Chemistry is solid
-Defence is top 10
-Offence is top 10
-Bench is arguably one of the best in the league

Paul Millsap is good and so is Ibaka


but are they really worth trading all of our bench players and picks for 1 year. That makes no sense. That would mean we would be one major injury from not only a big weakness again but we would have no real replacement or person who could step up.
The nice thing about our team is we have 2-3 solid players at every position except the 4.

Poetl is solid too and he and Delon will get minutes together.


Carroll will be healthy.

Demar will be improved

Norm may come back with a 3pt shot ( been working all summer so far )

Kyle and Demar will get better just by being around the competitive guys of the USA basketball and being coached by Coach K. Next year we will be fine. I think we have learned from this playoff run not to let up on your opponent when you have them down and almost out. I think they will come back with a better intensity and We have a good chance of beating the Cavs as they are currently constructed. Heck if JV didn't go down we may have beaten Miami in less games and would have pushed the Cavs at least one more game... Call me crazy... this is why I am the TrueTorontoFan.


Continuity and patience and defense is how you build a contender. We stay the course and become like boston. We sign someone one of these days and it will push us over the top. You don't make deals for the sake of making deals. This is risk management. You make small bets and get small but decent ROI's each year but its consistent. When the market falls on its face all the ppl who bet big all the time will fall flat but you can weather the storm and move ahead as you always have because you didn't bet the house.

[Apollo]

I don't think a team like the Raptors should take a risk on a free agent like Westbrook. They flip a bunch of assets and then lose Westbrook for nothing. It just doesn't make sense to me.

No, but it's also a bit off to say "keeping guys together" is the pattern.

Really the pattern is acquiring (by "throwing together" or by development) and keeping elite level talent.

At the end of the day we just need more of that, end of story.

The keeping bit seems to be the hardest part of it though. I'm curious to know why Durant chose to leave and why Westbrook wants out. Is it the market? Did they lose faith in the management?

[big boi]

What? None of those players had that many ppg I don't need to look it up. Lowry would never resign here if he's traded and westbrook would never sign here period. Favors Lyles is a treadmill move, Lowry is arguably our best player of all time, indisputably top 3. That is a shitty return, 1 year left or not.

No way after we commit to DD that we trade Lowry. Part of the benefit of signing DD to a big long term deal is continuity. KL and DD are best friends. It would rip the team apart. And the fan base I bet. Kyle is my favourite player and I'm sure I have plenty of company.

Part of the prize of signing DD is a very good chance of resigning KL.

[Apollo]

No way after we commit to DD that we trade Lowry. Part of the benefit of signing DD to a big long term deal is continuity. KL and DD are best friends. It would rip the team apart. And the fan base I bet. Kyle is my favourite player and I'm sure I have plenty of company.

Part of the prize of signing DD is a very good chance of resigning KL.

I think the key to keeping Kyle is not slipping backwards. They need to show signs of improvement. Also consider he likes having his own team. The reason he was trouble in Houston was because their view of him and his view of himself didn't align. He viewed himself as he is now, a main guy.

[KHD]

I don't think a team like the Raptors should take a risk on a free agent like Westbrook. They flip a bunch of assets and then lose Westbrook for nothing. It just doesn't make sense to me.



The keeping bit seems to be the hardest part of it though. I'm curious to know why Durant chose to leave and why Westbrook wants out. Is it the market? Did they lose faith in the management?

yeah i agree with you, i'm not advocating for an all-in. just saying that we're not really in a position where simply keeping what we have is necessarily the best move either.

Very interesting times coming for Masai, he's going to have to decide how good these guys can be pretty soon.

[c-troop]

LOL Kyle Lowry is not going to resign with the Raptors next year unless we win a ring .

Which we won't. And he will walk, and sign a bigger contract somewhere warm or highly decorated.

He's competitive. And he is on a team right now with Durant, watching Durant's moves and I'm sure it is influencing him slightly.

When he's playing on the Bulls or the Lakers next season working his way up the post-basketball-broadcasting-ladder you're gonna wish we traded him for a starting PF under a flexible contract.

[Apollo]

yeah i agree with you, i'm not advocating for an all-in. just saying that we're not really in a position where simply keeping what we have is necessarily the best move either.

Very interesting times coming for Masai, he's going to have to decide how good these guys can be pretty soon.

I'm totally down with Westbrook if he wants to sign an extension. Give him the maximum and be done with it.

A more realistic option would be to go after a guy like Blake Griffin. There are concerns which drop his value a little yet at the same time the upside is still large.

[Apollo]

LOL Kyle Lowry is not going to resign with the Raptors next year unless we win a ring .

Which we won't. And he will walk, and sign a bigger contract somewhere warm or highly decorated.

He's competitive. And he is on a team right now with Durant, watching Durant's moves and I'm sure it is influencing him slightly.

When he's playing on the Bulls or the Lakers next season working his way up the post-basketball-broadcasting-ladder you're gonna wish we traded him for a starting PF under a flexible contract.

But he was on a team before where he was way down the pecking order and hated it.