The 2016 Offseason thread

[Chr1s1anL]

Big time. That's the one thing I agree with you on. I know a lot of people here think Biz was and is overrated by people on this forum but I truly think he did a lot for us on that end. If we replaced what he brought then I wouldn't be too worried but we didn't. If you guys think Bebe and Jakob or Sullinger is going to make up for what Biz brought on the defensive end you have another thing coming. And we all know JV isn't the greatest defender mainly because he's slow. When Sullinger is playing centre we are literally going to have zero rim protection and players will recognize this and go at our bigs. And our guards aren't good enough defenders to be able to get away with that weakness. Also JV gets into foul trouble a lot too so the backup big will probably have to come into games a lot earlier than one would like. Boston had much better perimeter defenders than we have which is why I think they were such a good defensive team. I don't think Sullinger had much to do with that. Other than that I think our team will be very good, but I do think losing Biz will really hurt our defense and that was one of the main reasons we were as good as we were.

Yeah, I feel the offense will be better but, the D will take a step back.

[GLF]

JV gets in foul trouble a lot? Got some evidence to support that claim? He averaged less than 4 PF's per 36 last year, fewer than Biz, Scola, Noguiera, Thompson.... Basically the fewest of any big this side of Patterson on the team. He's seen his per minute fouling rate drop every year of his career.

As for JV's defence, the team was just fine with him on the court without Scola, which is no shock. The biggest problem with the team's defence last year is gone, so losing Biz too probably won't be the massive hit everyone seems to be thinking.

Now, losing Greer could be a huge hit if they resort to the madness of two seasons ago defensively. But they should be able to maintain last season's strategy easily enough and take no major step back.

You're right about the foul trouble I guess. I just find sometimes he would get 2 fouls quickly and then settle down for the rest of the game. But seems I was wrong about that. You are definitely right about Scola being the biggest problem with our defense. But I honestly don't think Sullinger is going to be that much better on that end. And sullinger still doesn't fit that well next to JV. Better than Scola for sure but to me not much better. So I can still see JV's defense being bad alongside Sullinger. Also JV's defense might have been better beside anyone not named Scola but I don't think it was Biz good. At least from the eye test. Maybe stats will prove me wrong about that too. I just feel we will have to rely on JV a ton defensively this upcoming season and I don't see that working out too well. It will be good for him though because it will force him to work on his defense and he will definitely be getting more minutes than he ever has if no one else steps up on that end.

[psrs1]

To me anyone who thinks our defense won't take a decent step down with the loss of Biz is just a very optimistic person. The toughness, grit, and defensive he brought has not been replaced in anyway in my opinion. Yes Sullinger is a very good rebounder so he helps replace that but he is nowhere as tough and gritty as Biz and he definitely is nowhere as good of a defender. Same goes for Bebe or Jakob. I hope I'm proven wrong but I honestly don't see how we are replacing that.

It's too bad some of DD's money didn't go to resign BB at a discount. BB may underwhelm , though, in Orlando as a starter. If so perhaps we can rea quire him at trade deadline ?

[Maury]

It's too bad some of DD's money didn't go to resign BB at a discount. BB may underwhelm , though, in Orlando as a starter. If so perhaps we can rea quire him at trade deadline ?

As great as he is he isn't worth that much money especially as a backup.

[TheWaterboy]

It's too bad some of DD's money didn't go to resign BB at a discount. BB may underwhelm , though, in Orlando as a starter. If so perhaps we can rea quire him at trade deadline ?

Salary cap wise, the only two ways we would have been able to sign Biz for anything more than Sullinger got would have been for Derozan to opt in to the final year of his contract (which was never going to happen), or for us to renounce all of our non-Derozan free agents *and* trade away Ross for nothing - and that still would have only gotten us to about 10 million, which is slightly more than half of what Biz got on the open market. There was a team out there willing to pay Biz 18 million a year; Derozan was never going to sign here at enough of a discount to to get us up to the 14 or 15 million a year we would have needed to bring Biz back.

Likewise, because that yearly salary is so huge, we aren't trading back for Biz mid-year unless Carroll is an equally major disappointment. We're too invested in the other players who could be traded more or less straight across (Derozan, Valunciunas). I suppose that we could also trade Ross + Bebe (our most expendable roster player to start the year) + one other player, but that would leave us with a couple of empty roster spots mid-year, and if that moves the needle enough for Orlando to make the trade, it probably means that Biz is struggling enough that we would have significant concerns about bringing him back, or that Ross is playing well enough that we don't want to trade him.

There's also the fact that bringing Biz back will have huge ramifications salary cap wise (unless we did Carroll for Biz): we'd have close to 95 million tied up in Derozan/Valunciunas/Carroll/resigned Lowry/Biz. That combined with Joseph and a resigned Patterson takes us past the future forecasted cap while leaving us with eight roster spots, some of which will still be filled by players on rookie scale contracts, some of which may also be getting re-signed before other contracts come due. We'd be going from capped out to perpetual payers of luxury tax who are consistently at the apron, with no good way to get our salary structure manageable again. If Biz is good enough to make it worth it for us to do that, Orlando isn't trading him back to us.

There's also the matter of Biz probably being worth about $12-14 million in value in current contract scale terms, with the $18 being a significant overpay. Unless Demar suddenly becomes a player fully comparable to Lebron, the best way for the Raptors to compete with the Cavs and GSW is to assemble a cast of players who are worth more than they are being paid, not less.

[DanH]

Salary cap wise, the only two ways we would have been able to sign Biz for anything more than Sullinger got would have been for Derozan to opt in to the final year of his contract (which was never going to happen), or for us to renounce all of our non-Derozan free agents *and* trade away Ross for nothing - and that still would have only gotten us to about 10 million, which is slightly more than half of what Biz got on the open market. There was a team out there willing to pay Biz 18 million a year; Derozan was never going to sign here at enough of a discount to to get us up to the 14 or 15 million a year we would have needed to bring Biz back.

Likewise, because that yearly salary is so huge, we aren't trading back for Biz mid-year unless Carroll is an equally major disappointment. We're too invested in the other players who could be traded more or less straight across (Derozan, Valunciunas). I suppose that we could also trade Ross + Bebe (our most expendable roster player to start the year) + one other player, but that would leave us with a couple of empty roster spots mid-year, and if that moves the needle enough for Orlando to make the trade, it probably means that Biz is struggling enough that we would have significant concerns about bringing him back, or that Ross is playing well enough that we don't want to trade him.

There's also the fact that bringing Biz back will have huge ramifications salary cap wise (unless we did Carroll for Biz): we'd have close to 95 million tied up in Derozan/Valunciunas/Carroll/resigned Lowry/Biz. That combined with Joseph and a resigned Patterson takes us past the future forecasted cap while leaving us with eight roster spots, some of which will still be filled by players on rookie scale contracts, some of which may also be getting re-signed before other contracts come due. We'd be going from capped out to perpetual payers of luxury tax who are consistently at the apron, with no good way to get our salary structure manageable again. If Biz is good enough to make it worth it for us to do that, Orlando isn't trading him back to us.

There's also the matter of Biz probably being worth about $12-14 million in value in current contract scale terms, with the $18 being a significant overpay. Unless Demar suddenly becomes a player fully comparable to Lebron, the best way for the Raptors to compete with the Cavs and GSW is to assemble a cast of players who are worth more than they are being paid, not less.

Trading Ross for nothing would have allowed us to offer a nearly identical deal to what Biz got (within a million or two per year). It's the deal that was reportedly lined up for if Pau said yes.

I agree with Biz coming back as a pure backup C being a problem for the salary cap moving forward.

[S.R.]

I got a feeling this team will miss BB a lot less than some people think.

[psrs1]

Trading Ross for nothing would have allowed us to offer a nearly identical deal to what Biz got (within a million or two per year). It's the deal that was reportedly lined up for if Pau said yes.

I agree with Biz coming back as a pure backup C being a problem for the salary cap moving forward.

You're right as usual Dan, though it's nice to dream .....keeping or reacquiring him is not going to happen. It's just he was so huge for us last year that many of see some slippage this year. JV never seems to make it through a season and frequently is in foul trouble which necessitates the need for a solid back up C . Clearly 18M is too much. If we could have kept him with losing TR for nothing that would been palatable though not ideal. Many of those runs we had was because of BB's defense.

[DanH]

You're right as usual Dan, though it's nice to dream .....keeping or reacquiring him is not going to happen. It's just he was so huge for us last year that many of see some slippage this year. JV never seems to make it through a season and frequently is in foul trouble which necessitates the need for a solid back up C . Clearly 18M is too much. If we could have kept him with losing TR for nothing that would been palatable though not ideal. Many of those runs we had was because of BB's defense.

JV never seems to make it through a season?

He played 80 and 81 games in the two seasons prior to last year. I've addressed the "frequently in foul trouble" bit, simply not true. Occasionally? Sure. Frequently, no.

And again, Sullinger is a pretty effective centre himself, and BeBe was great last year when he was used.

It's true that many of the runs we had were because of Biyombo's defence. Of course, many of the runs the opponent had were because of his offence...

[GLF]

JV never seems to make it through a season?

He played 80 and 81 games in the two seasons prior to last year. I've addressed the "frequently in foul trouble" bit, simply not true. Occasionally? Sure. Frequently, no.

And again, Sullinger is a pretty effective centre himself, and BeBe was great last year when he was used.

It's true that many of the runs we had were because of Biyombo's defence. Of course, many of the runs the opponent had were because of his offence...

Is Sullinger really an effective centre? How is he defensively as a centre? Cause I really can't see him doing a good job there on the defensive end.

[LJ2]

I got a feeling this team will miss BB a lot less than some people think.

I hope you're right, but man if JV goes down with an injury there is going to be no rim protection out there for us. And with JV having to now step up his minutes along with 2Pat, the risk of injury increases.

[DanH]

Is Sullinger really an effective centre? How is he defensively as a centre? Cause I really can't see him doing a good job there on the defensive end.

He played C almost exclusively last season. He was the 10th ranked C by RPM, 18th defensively. He's solid as a C. The real question is how good he is as a PF. But, yeah, he's not a Biyombo-esque rim protector.

[slaw]

I hope you're right, but man if JV goes down with an injury there is going to be no rim protection out there for us. And with JV having to now step up his minutes along with 2Pat, the risk of injury increases.

That's a depth concern, though, not necessarily a BB issue.

The upside is that some young guys will likely get a chance to step up and, if the don't, frontcourt help will no doubt be brought in via trade.

[Sinbad]

That's a depth concern, though, not necessarily a BB issue.

The upside is that some young guys will likely get a chance to step up and, if the don't, frontcourt help will no doubt be brought in via trade.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Masai making a deal in-season for frontcourt help. He'll trot out his usual, "We don't want to do anything that would sacrifice our future just to make a short term move" quote. If he was going to do anything about the frontcourt, he would have done so this offseason but, as has been extensively discussed, his options were limited and he was hamstrung by the cap. Depth is a concern. Sullinger and Patterson are solid, but I can't see Casey being thrilled about playing Poeltl or Siakam meaningful minutes if he doesn't absolutely have to.

[DanH]

I wouldn't hold my breath on Masai making a deal in-season for frontcourt help. He'll trot out his usual, "We don't want to do anything that would sacrifice our future just to make a short term move" quote. If he was going to do anything about the frontcourt, he would have done so this offseason but, as has been extensively discussed, his options were limited and he was hamstrung by the cap. Depth is a concern. Sullinger and Patterson are solid, but I can't see Casey being thrilled about playing Poeltl or Siakam meaningful minutes if he doesn't absolutely have to.

I guess? I suppose we could have said the same about potential minutes for Powell last summer. We have enough veterans at every position that we won't be stuck starting a rookie no matter who goes down (assuming of course we avoid multiple injuries at the same position at the same time). And a rookie playing backup minutes in injury situations is not the end of the world.