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Biyombo as a starting PF - make the case

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  • #31
    the other thing to keep in mind is...the plan is to extend JVs range to the 3 point line. He hits them now in practice...

    again...granted he needs to show that he can do it games before it would be respected
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    • #32
      thead wrote: View Post
      the other thing to keep in mind is...the plan is to extend JVs range to the 3 point line. He hits them now in practice...

      again...granted he needs to show that he can do it games before it would be respected


      have no doubt in my mind he will extend his range. Stretch5 baby!
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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      • #33
        Barolt and others are right. Can't have DD/BB/JV on the floor at the same time, it's practically impossible in today's NBA.

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        • #34
          thead wrote: View Post
          Randolph and Gasol is another example. Gasol and Bynum.

          It seems to me that either JV or Biyombo need to be able to hit from 15 - 20 ft consistently.
          Capela and Howard. That was the Rockets' best big man combination (+7.5 Net RTG. Was their 2nd best duo overall on the team. 300 MIN together) this season despite none of them having any range. Wouldn't work as well with DeMar at the 2 because the Rockets compensated with 3 shooters around them. Still, the rebounding advantage would be pretty huge over the course of a season.

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          • #35
            I don't see Biz being able to play any effective minutes at the 4, unless in a specific matchup (like a Adams-Kanter lineup) where you are extremely worried about the glass.

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            • #36
              There are very clear arguments why (spacing, etc.) they can't play together.
              However, jv is already training to extend his range, improve passing, and his defense. Biyombo is working on his hands, pnr and free throws/shooting mechanics. Demar and norm are working on 3pt shooting.
              We will have difficulty to find a FA that fits our needs and wants to sign, then integrate that player and hope it works. Demarre hasnt integrated fully yet, injuries aside.
              Or, we trade for a player that fits, assuming their team is willing and what do we give up to get that player? Then that player still needs to be integrated. Does that happen this summer or the deadline...?
              No scenario is perfect, but biz is 6'9 w/7'4 wingspan and can cover lbj in space and block him HARD. The team loves him, we love him, he loves us and we've got a yr until next post season to improve. Every one of those guys is ready to work and want to play together, here. How often has that happened in raps history?
              If we somehow get the player we need, great but we know what we have in biz and I think something clicked for him as the yr progressed that didn't happen in Charlotte. He might grow into some form of what we need or just work out.
              After wanting Casey to be fired for years and then see him grow in rd2and3; I believe anything is possible. We got blown out by 50 and won back to back! We traded Rudy to tank and won the Atlantic. We tried to trade Lowry and he's an all star now. Biz fought lions, now he's cashing cheques. I believe in biz, he can't fail. I believe in Masai.

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              • #37
                Clearly some missed thead's OP instructions below,

                thead wrote: View Post
                I know the reasons it can't work.

                What are some of the reasons it could.
                The way I could see starting Biyombo at PF is if we start Patterson at C.

                All kidding aside, 2 bigs works if both can hit midrange (LMA&Duncan, Gasol&ZBo) or you have 3 point threats at every other position allowing the bigs to play high-low with space.
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                • #38
                  Axel wrote: View Post
                  Clearly some missed thead's OP instructions below,



                  The way I could see starting Biyombo at PF is if we start Patterson at C.

                  All kidding aside, 2 bigs works if both can hit midrange (LMA&Duncan, Gasol&ZBo) or you have 3 point threats at every other position allowing the bigs to play high-low with space.
                  Clearly, the Raptors need to have three players on the floor that can hit a 3 pt shot. That was supposed to be Carroll, Scola and Lowry this season and it was at the beginning of the year when they won five in a row to start the season. Patterson and Ross were supposed to be two other reliable shooters that could be subbed in. Casey had to pick his poison for most of the season after Carroll went out, Patterson lost his shot, and Ross turned out to be as reliable as an ice bridge in an Arizona summer.

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                  • #39
                    Barolt wrote: View Post
                    Can't do it if DeMar is the starting 2.

                    With DeMar and JV, you need the other 3 guys to shoot. If DeMar isn't the answer, Biyombo at the 4 might be doable.
                    I agree demar is the odd man out JV, Lowry, biz have proven they are performers in the playoffs. Demar had Jr. Smith guarding him and didn't go off for 40.

                    I wanted to see biz and JV from the beginning of the season.


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                    • #40
                      I was thinking about it , and you could probably line it up so that JV and Biz only actually play about 10-12 minutes, which is certainly doable. If you recall the start of this season, JV talked about how over last summer he really worked to slim down, get more agile and skilled so he could play some minutes as a pf. Obviously he isn't there, but recall he wants to be able to do that, which would make playing with Biz easier.

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                      • #41
                        grindhouse wrote: View Post
                        I agree demar is the odd man out JV, Lowry, biz have proven they are performers in the playoffs. Demar had Jr. Smith guarding him and didn't go off for 40.

                        I wanted to see biz and JV from the beginning of the season.


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                        he was scoring 23 a game on 50% shooting during the cleveland series ??
                        I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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                        • #42
                          I didn't see anyone talking about how this works defensively, but I think from that stand point alone we should be considering this. Bismack can defend any starting four in the league, he demonstrated tremendous food speed in the playoffs and his length is a huge issue for anyone. Between him and JV you would have huge length and rebounding in the paint, as well as two very intelligent help defenders.

                          Now offensively, this does require us to be a bit creative. If JV can develop a corner 3, this is a non-issue and you basically have something resembling the Keven Love/Tristan Thompson pairing. If we assume that JV is not going to add range this doesn't eliminate this as a possibility, we are just going to have to be creative in how we use our Screens.

                          Picture this: Demar has the ball at the point of attack. JV sets the high screen and rolls to the post while Demar turns the corner. Concurrently, Biyombo sets the off ball screen to free up Lowry for the kick out three. You've got three options now: Demar takes it, JV gets it on the roll, or you kick to Lowry. And you've got a dedicated offensive rebounder to come to the rim regardless. We run plays like this all the time.

                          Look at the 08 Celtics and you see a blueprint for how this team could look. Garnett, Rondo, and Perkins all couldn't shoot 3's and Perkins was almost as offensively limited as Bismack but the teams commitment to defense and elite use of screen made them incredibly difficult to beat. Now, you can certainly make the point that Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rondo are much much better than DD, Lowry, and JV, which is true, but it does provide a precedent for this kind of line up working at the highest levels in the modern NBA.
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                          -Churchill

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                          • #43
                            hateslosing wrote: View Post
                            I didn't see anyone talking about how this works defensively, but I think from that stand point alone we should be considering this. Bismack can defend any starting four in the league, he demonstrated tremendous food speed in the playoffs and his length is a huge issue for anyone. Between him and JV you would have huge length and rebounding in the paint, as well as two very intelligent help defenders.

                            Now offensively, this does require us to be a bit creative. If JV can develop a corner 3, this is a non-issue and you basically have something resembling the Keven Love/Tristan Thompson pairing. If we assume that JV is not going to add range this doesn't eliminate this as a possibility, we are just going to have to be creative in how we use our Screens.

                            Picture this: Demar has the ball at the point of attack. JV sets the high screen and rolls to the post while Demar turns the corner. Concurrently, Biyombo sets the off ball screen to free up Lowry for the kick out three. You've got three options now: Demar takes it, JV gets it on the roll, or you kick to Lowry. And you've got a dedicated offensive rebounder to come to the rim regardless. We run plays like this all the time.

                            Look at the 08 Celtics and you see a blueprint for how this team could look. Garnett, Rondo, and Perkins all couldn't shoot 3's and Perkins was almost as offensively limited as Bismack but the teams commitment to defense and elite use of screen made them incredibly difficult to beat. Now, you can certainly make the point that Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rondo are much much better than DD, Lowry, and JV, which is true, but it does provide a precedent for this kind of line up working at the highest levels in the modern NBA.
                            So you want to take one of the most dominant post players in the NBA, JV, and turn him into a corner 3 specialist?
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                            • #44
                              I think it works fine with Biyombo on the far side for duck ins and offensive rebounds, and as a secondary screener if the initial action fails. Especially if DeMar-JV is the primary action, as that probably lets Biyombo set a screen for Carroll (to cut) or Lowry (to flash to the elbow for a three) without letting his man sag into the paint. First option on every play should still be DD-JV two man action. And if that secondary screen gets Lowry moving into the paint, JV bails to the corner after setting his off ball screen for DD, rather than clogging the paint - if Lowry ends up coming off the screen high and is going to be stuck hitting a jumper, he crashes the paint.
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                              • #45
                                Barolt wrote: View Post
                                So you want to take one of the most dominant post players in the NBA, JV, and turn him into a corner 3 specialist?
                                He just talked about having the ability to shoot the corner 3 to space the floor if necessary. Nobody's talking about turning JV into Bruce Bowen.

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