Everything Jared Sullinger

[Chr1s1anL]

Also, playing in a different league. The other 29 teams changed over those 'couple years' too.

Just saying his getting praised for something Casey has done before.

[DanH]

I guess that makes as much sense as anything. It's just that Patterson/JV are so good together that maximizing that time seems like a no-brainer.

For fun, the best 3-man offensive lineups over 100 minutes last season for the Raps:

Oh, for sure, I'm aware how potent the combo is.

There is, however, an argument to be made for not going too hot, too cold, in one game. Having a decent amount of JV/Pat (I do expect more of that this year, absolutely has to happen) and also having Pat there to keep the bench afloat is also valuable (for example, having a few minutes of JV/Sully, assuming it is decent, buys you some Sully/PP minutes in place of Sully/BeBe minutes, for example).

[Demographic Shift]

A) It didn't happen with Biz so how could it happen with Sully?!

B) Ever think that come summer 2017 the Raptors might go for even a bigger fish?! Milsap , Gallinari , Blake Griffin, Ibaka.

All of those guys are going to Boston... all of them...and even guys who aren't going anywhere are going to Boston.
Players from other leagues are going to Boston. Bryce Harper... Alexander Ovechkin. They are all going.
Just read ESPN. Crackheads

[Barolt]

Oh, for sure, I'm aware how potent the combo is.

There is, however, an argument to be made for not going too hot, too cold, in one game. Having a decent amount of JV/Pat (I do expect more of that this year, absolutely has to happen) and also having Pat there to keep the bench afloat is also valuable (for example, having a few minutes of JV/Sully, assuming it is decent, buys you some Sully/PP minutes in place of Sully/BeBe minutes, for example).

What I was hoping for was Pat starting, and Lowry's minutes down, and take some bumps along the way to allow the other guys to build lineups without those two guys for long-term purposes. I don't need 56 wins again, I want a team built for playoff success.

But I suspect you and I are mostly on the same page here.

[Demographic Shift]

That really has nothing to do with it. Watch our offence then go watch bostons


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I watched Torontos offense in the ECF.
I only got to watch Bostons in the first round.
Where it was a series of ISO plays for Issiah Thomas until they flamed out in the 6th game.
Kinda like what the Raps get pilloried for every other post. Somehow its different if its Boston and Brad. Because Brad's a coaching genius.

[Demographic Shift]

Classic value suppression tactic. Pat buried on bench doesn't get paid as much next summer maybe. Just like JV took a very nice extension after a few years of being underused and benched in the 4th Q in spite of not actually being a problem.

I'm not arguing it's a good idea. But if the plan was for the team to be really competing from 2017 on, then some value suppression (ie "patience" and "development") would help with that goal.

Shouldn't matter on the value suppression thoughts. We have his bird rights and a pretty decent cap hold I'd imagine and the ability to go over the cap to keep him.... if both he and we want to.

[DanH]

Shouldn't matter on the value suppression thoughts. We have his bird rights and a pretty decent cap hold I'd imagine and the ability to go over the cap to keep him.... if both he and we want to.

Depends how much tax you want to be paying. Could be diving deeeep into the tax if he and Lowry both want really big raises.

[Barolt]

Depends how much tax you want to be paying. Could be diving deeeep into the tax if he and Lowry both want really big raises.

And realistically, even without Pat having a big year, he's been in demand. Smart GMs understand how good he's been for us, and there's a chance his price tag will be high anyways.

[Demographic Shift]

Depends how much tax you want to be paying. Could be diving deeeep into the tax if he and Lowry both want really big raises.

Tax line was spitballed to be in the 120's... Rogers and Bell are a lot of things but poor isn't one of them. Would expect them to nod yes if a solid case is proposed to go into a tax situation for a season or two.

[DanH]

Tax line was spitballed to be in the 130's... Rogers and Bell are a lot of things but poor isn't one of them. Would expect them to nod yes if a solid case is proposed to go into a tax situation for a season or two.

Current projection at about 124M.

I'd be OK going into the tax, obviously. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be better to be able to do the same stuff for less money, especially when you consider the lesser exceptions that tax teams get.

[slaw]

Why are we so damn allergic to starting Pat?

He's the perfect fit for our system, and plays great beside JV.

Perhaps it has something to do with Patterson himself? Perhaps he prefers coming off the bench? People are not widgets. People are weird and sometimes the weird stuff matters more than we think it does...

[Barolt]

Perhaps it has something to do with Patterson himself? Perhaps he prefers coming off the bench? People are not widgets. People are weird and sometimes the weird stuff matters more than we think it does...

https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...ward-spot.html

In an NBA career that spans five seasons, Patterson has played in 333 games but started only 65, including 11 in a season and a half with the Raptors. But barring major changes between now and training camp, the Raptors’ starting power forward job, once filled by Johnson, is Patterson’s to lose. The 26-year-old has never started a season as a club’s No. 1 power forward and he says he is embracing the chance.

But he’s still ready to compete for the job

“Realistically, that’s the one role that’s not filled yet,” said Patterson, who averaged 8.0 points and 5.3 rebounds a game last season. “I see it as it’s mine to lose . . . But it’s all about what coach (Dwane) Casey wants, what (general manager) Masai (Ujiri) sees, and who works hard and who earns it.”

Looks like he wanted to start, and didn't get to at all during the regular season.

[Sinbad]

Classic value suppression tactic. Pat buried on bench doesn't get paid as much next summer maybe. Just like JV took a very nice extension after a few years of being underused and benched in the 4th Q in spite of not actually being a problem.

I'm not arguing it's a good idea. But if the plan was for the team to be really competing from 2017 on, then some value suppression (ie "patience" and "development") would help with that goal.

I agree with this. It made no logical sense to trot out Scola's corpse in the starting lineup when Patterson outclassed him in virtually every metric. Undercutting him by limiting his minutes is an underhanded tactic that smacks of value suppression. We saw it for years with JV-- though if Jonas and his agent had held out until this summer, all hell would have broken loose with all the money being thrown out.

Patterson could have given us more than 25 mpg last season, and it wouldn't surprise me if he saw less than that with Sullinger in the fold. He'll absolutely be expected to take a paycut too, though the Raptors will be up against the cap no matter what he signs for. Not much to bring in a significant difference-maker in free agency.

[3inthekeon]

Classic value suppression tactic. Pat buried on bench doesn't get paid as much next summer maybe. Just like JV took a very nice extension after a few years of being underused and benched in the 4th Q in spite of not actually being a problem.

I'm not arguing it's a good idea. But if the plan was for the team to be really competing from 2017 on, then some value suppression (ie "patience" and "development") would help with that goal.

This has to assume JV and his agent are not the brightest bulbs around. If either felt this was the case, why would they have signed the extension they did instead of rightfully telling the Raptor organization to go fuck themselves?

[Demographic Shift]

I agree with this. It made no logical sense to trot out Scola's corpse in the starting lineup when Patterson outclassed him in virtually every metric. Undercutting him by limiting his minutes is an underhanded tactic that smacks of value suppression. We saw it for years with JV-- though if Jonas and his agent had held out until this summer, all hell would have broken loose with all the money being thrown out.

Patterson could have given us more than 25 mpg last season, and it wouldn't surprise me if he saw less than that with Sullinger in the fold. He'll absolutely be expected to take a paycut too, though the Raptors will be up against the cap no matter what he signs for. Not much to bring in a significant difference-maker in free agency.

Patrick is going to be a UFA.
For a compare Ryan Anderson got 20M and Chandler Parsons got 23.
Thats with the cap at 94. Next year its going up again. To 102.
Pat makes 6.
Not likely he takes a pay cut.
More likely he makes north of 20.