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Thread: Turkoglu on the Ropes

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Turkoglu on the Ropes

    Didn't see this posted anywhere, but its from yesterday.

    Courtesy of Jeff Blair from the Globe & Mail:

    That was indeed the word “if” that I heard in connection with Hedo Turkoglu's return when replaying the tape of Toronto Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo's postmortem.

    Good luck foisting that contract on somebody, but there are people around the team who believe Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment will force him to take on whatever contract he needs to in order to get rid of Turkoglu, especially after a column this week in the Toronto Star suggested the Raptors play off the court with more zest than they do on the court – which would explain some things.

    Just a hunch here, but my guess is their only European starter next season is Andrea Bargnani.
    Source - Click here

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    "Just a hunch here, but my guess is their only European starter next season is Andrea Bargnani."

    Oh, please. I hope not.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Hedo has been a nightmare. He was so unprofessional this season. At least Andrea tries, wants to be good, care about the team, doesn't whine and doesn't complain. Andrea Bargnani is professional and what ever gripes you have with his game you can't take that away from him. I'm rooting for him to take a step forward this season and I'm rooting for Hedo to take a step out the door.

    I'll never be sorry to see Andrea on a team I cheer for as long as he's working on getting better and does his best. If that keeps up he'll get to where he wants to go.

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    Oh, I'd like to see Turkoglu go, make no mistake about it. I just think this summer will be the last time that Colangelo can convince someone that Bargnani still has a lot of potential. After five years, and another one like this, I think too many teams are going to see Bargnani for what he is.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Bargnani has improved every year. I don't think he's going to plateau at age 25. That doesn't make any sense when most big men are hitting their primes a couple years after that.

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    I'm with Apollo on this. Keeping Bargnani isn't a bad thing, and he certainly hasn't plateaud yet imo. Once he develops a more consistent offensive repertoire (which has been improving since his rookie season), I see him as a 19 and 8 guy and a great complimentary player.

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    Raptors Republic Starter TheR3dMenace's Avatar
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    Turkoglu really damaged his reputation this year. That has ramifications with the fans, organization and potential trade partners.

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    I'd rather trade Jose and keep Hedo as our 6th man/back-up PG-Point Forward.

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    hedo's definitely been a disappointment. but i think he'll be a decent contributing piece next year. whether it's worth the contract is different, but i think we might get more value for him midway through the season because i think he'll pick up his play next season. hedo will definitely be more effective not playing with jose, who i think is more likely on the move.

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    Hedo could contribute much more in a better system tailored to his skills.

    The issue is we play a system on offence that is not suited to his needs, and we have a big-man core that can't make up for the holes on our perimeter on defense.

    MLSE MIGHT be interested in making a trade so that fans get what they want (never to see Hedo in a Raps' uniform again) because they are worried that he will cause fewer ticket sales. However, MLSE also has an issue if they can't get Hedo out of T.O. without horrible returning contracts, that hurts their bottom-line as well.

    I think the story is likely bogus. MLSE only cares about the bottom-line.

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    Bargnani's biggest improvement has come in the form of minutes. Per minute, he's statistically producing very similar numbers as he was in his rookie season. He has virtually the same percentage of shots assisted on (meaning he doesn't create his shot any more than during his rookie season), slightly more points inside, virtually the same rebounding numbers and gets to the line at virtually the same rate. And his team defense may have actually gotten worse, if that's possible. There are some things he has improved on, but nothing impressive. Jay Triano simply happens to let players play through their inconsistencies more than Sam Mitchell did.

    Has he plateaued? It depends on what you mean. He's certainly going to continue to improve, but that's natural for any NBA player, and the improvements are going to continue to be marginal.

    Marz,

    Are you you kidding me? In four years, Bargnani has gone from 5.6 rebounds per 36 minutes to 6.3. At that rate, it's going to take him more than 12 years for him to get up to 8. And for him to be a great complimentary player, he's going to have to become a good defensive player, which he will likely never become.

    My biggest reason for wanting Bargnani traded is because it is SO, SO, SO, SO, SO much more difficult to become a contender with a defensively weak big man. In fact, no Championship team has ever had a defensively weak big man in the rotation. And no big man that has been a rotation player on a Championship team has ever been as poor a rebounder as Bargnani. The least a big man has ever averaged, per 36 minutes, is 7 rebounds, and those that averaged close to that were generally above average defenders.

    Bargnani does literally one thing well, and that's score. And he doesn't create his own shot and doesn't score well in the post. Exactly what is it that you people see in him, because I really don't understand.

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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    MLSE only cares about the bottom-line.
    Please show me even one piece of evidence that supports this.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    To all those who think Bosh is nothing more than a very good second man on a team, and they may be right, that would surely mean Bargs is only a good 3rd man. There's absolutely no way this team will ever win a championship with him as our first or second option. And if Bosh leaves he'll likely be our top front court player?? Yikes, it'll be a long season waiting for someone to grab some boards once in a while(might be a little better if Amir re-ups).

    As much as I'd love it for Turk to have a bounce back year with us, I really don't see it happening. He got his big contract and is playing for Turkey again this summer which probably bodes for another long season of crap. If he pulls the same stunts and plays like shit next season I'm a little afraid of the backlash that's going to come from the fans. If he thought this year was bad, he might have to go into hiding or retirement after next one.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    mlse only cares about the bottom-line.
    Quote tim w. wrote: View Post
    please show me even one piece of evidence that supports this.
    1967

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    Hedo could contribute much more in a better system tailored to his skills.
    Hedo should be able to accommodate his teammates, it shouldn't be the other way around. Who has the combination of size and guard skills?

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    Apollo, you know I am the last to defend Hedo. He should have done better than he did. I even hated on Hedo.

    But what I was referring to above is that Hedo was not suited for this team when he was brought in. At least 50% blame needs to be placed on BC for bringing in a guy whose value is being a point-forward, paying based on those skills, and then putting him on a team where the system is, and always has been reliant on a distributing PG.

    I am not saying that he will ever be worth $53 million, but he could (MAYBE) be at least nominally better if he were playing as a point-forward.

    ----

    TIm W., I think Doc said it all.

    If you need more, see Feschuk and Grange, Leafs Abomination:

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=iOSM...page&q&f=false

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Hedo was brought in to improve the team. The guy can shoot, the guy can handle, the guy can pass and the guy can rebound and D up when he puts his mind to it. I believe that Hedo chose to check out early on in the season because anyone with those abilities should be able to fit anywhere. He got the ball in his hands, just not as much. When he did get the ball he didn't show anything special. Shame on BC for making a bad decision in trusting Hedo Turkoglu and over paying. Shame on Hedo Turkoglu for misleading Brian Colangelo. I'm sure Brian didn't sign him up for mediocre play, lack of effort, lack of professionalism, etc. That wasn't on the resume and it wasn't in the game film... Well lack of effort sometimes but you get the drift.

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    Quote verbatim wrote: View Post
    TIm W., I think Doc said it all.

    If you need more, see Feschuk and Grange, Leafs Abomination:

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=iOSM...page&q&f=false
    I have no idea what he was referring to and have watched exactly one hockey game in my entire life (and didn't like it), so none of that means anything to me. Care to elaborate?

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    for as much as I would like to see Hedo hit the road, I know it will never happen. Having said that, I think we should try to use him as a 6th man. I think he could still be valuable for couple of years in that role. I say let's get a guy like Outlaw with the MLE and let's make Hedo start off the bench

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    Quote TIm W. wrote: View Post
    I have no idea what he was referring to and have watched exactly one hockey game in my entire life (and didn't like it), so none of that means anything to me. Care to elaborate?
    I was referring to the last time the Leafs won the Stanley Cup. Now, I don't believe Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment has been around since then, (I could be wrong though) but my point being is that as long as the MLSE makes money, who cares if they win anything. They don't seem to care of if they do they certainly haven't shown it. For them, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. Mediocrity sits well with them and for the most part it would appear as though its also rubbing off on its fans where we've accepted and are supporting medicrity with our beloved Raptors.

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