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Thread: Changing the Raptors

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default Changing the Raptors

    I think for sometime now, one of the main reasons why the Raptors dont really succeed is because they get players, and then try to change them into something theyre not, so that they will be a "fit" for the team.

    It started when they took TJ, who after a couple of games, they wanted to be a passing guard when in fact he was more of a scoring guard. They took O' Neal as a pure defensive presence beside Bosh or Bargs, but we all know that guys is a scorer as well. They drafted Bargs knowing fully well the guy played as a scoring PF throughout his career, but then they wanted him to be a center, and a defensive center at that. They then took Hedo who clearly stated he plays more comfortably as a point-forward, but they wanted him to be a stand-still shooter instead.

    I think its fairly obvious we're barking on the wrong tree here, i really dont think its the player's fault, because they were traded for or signed to this team because of what they can do, not because of what they should do. I mean you cant really say "oh theyre not team players" because its up to the coach and GM to figure out which player they should get to fit the team, not getting a player and forcing them to fit the team.

    What do you guys think?

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Great point! I fully agree with your argument.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I like some of your points except for TJ Ford. TJ worked well in the offense and I don't know if you remember the month of December where Bosh was out and he carried the team and they went .500 on a west coast swing with him making some big shots and big plays... His big play that month played a huge role in the outcome of the regular season. He was a better defender for Toronto than Jose has ever been.

    Beyond that, I think the issue is and was with the coaching. A good coach can get the most out of his players. I think a good coach would have made Jermaine fit. I don't think a good coach would have got to Hedo though. He got his payday and checked out immediately. He complained about not getting enough chances but did nothing with the chances he did get.

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    I think Raptors coaching staff has tendency to focus on offense. Good teams focus more on defence, they give a lot more freedom to their players on offence. In Raptors case, we focus more on offensive sets and they are very good; since we are better offensive teams in the league. Utah Jazz and Jerry Sloan are definately have best half-court sets, but there is a reason why Sloan has not won a championship. In Raptors case, the main focus going forward should be defence, because this team has no problem putting up points

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    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    Your statement has merit, there are lots of examples of good players who failed on a new team because of their change in roll on the new team. Hedont, Brand, Ben Gordon, Villanueva, Wince, Richard Jefferson etc etc etc etc etc. come to mind.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Its sad they signed Hedo but they wouldnt make plays for him in clutch time. Like the Hawks game, Bosh shouldnt have taken that jumper over Horford, he was just lucky it went in, but thats what why got Hedo, make plays for him and let him work. If it goes in, good, if it doesnt, then go onto the next game, but at least you know you used him for what you paid him for. You cant buy a dvd player and make it play blurays. It aint gonna work.

    I know there's a lot of Hedo haters here but you cant really put it on Hedo. I mean if youve been playing the same game throughout your career and then move to a team which wants to play another game, then you really cant deliver. Im pretty sure he missed a lot of clutch shots in Orlando, but they knew what he can do and made sure thats what he did. If the Raps finally give in and give Hedo room to operate, i think we'll going to have a good season next year.

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    let's put it this way with hedo... in sacremento and in san antonio he wasn't used properly (spot up and working off the ball) and it wasn't until he got to orlando that he became the player that he is known for now (well orlando days not raptors)... so I agree completely that he wasn't used the right way... my problem was with jay triano (whom i'm still willing to give a chance because if we fire him we're back at sq 1) the three point guard/forward lineup with two power forwards CANNOT BE OUR CLOSING LINEUP... I dont know wtf took SOOO long before we realized one of the derozan/weems/wright had to be on the court because they can work off the ball and do the little things (rebound, deflections, steals, and just being athletic)... so hedo is a guy who needs the ball and who runs the offence yet we let jose and jarrett do it too often (which normally I wouldn't complain about but if we're gonna spend the money on hedo then we gotta FUCKING USE HIM THE RIGHT WAY)... anyways.... my point is alot of the players we got didn't fit well because they weren't the players we thought they were... with TJ I think the issue was really his injuries and attitude and NOT talent but for hedo and jermaine... ya totally used incorrectly

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    I'm pretty sure they gave Hedo the ball all the time in the fourth quarter and he just didn't produce. He missed the Suns game winner, turned the ball over badly against the lakers, bricked countless 3's and there are a few more I just can't remember.

    They need Hedo to create in the fourth, but he was truly abysmal in crunch time. They gave him the ball, called pick and rolls and he would turn the ball over, throw up an ugly fade away or drive and flail his arms in the air hoping for a bail out. He cost the raptors at least five games by his inability to do anything productive with the ball, having said that when he is out of the lineup they stand around and wait for something to happen. I don't think its possible to play as bad next year, so even a marginally producing Hedo will have a positive influence.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    I think for sometime now, one of the main reasons why the Raptors dont really succeed is because they get players, and then try to change them into something theyre not, so that they will be a "fit" for the team.

    It started when they took TJ, who after a couple of games, they wanted to be a passing guard when in fact he was more of a scoring guard. They took O' Neal as a pure defensive presence beside Bosh or Bargs, but we all know that guys is a scorer as well. They drafted Bargs knowing fully well the guy played as a scoring PF throughout his career, but then they wanted him to be a center, and a defensive center at that. They then took Hedo who clearly stated he plays more comfortably as a point-forward, but they wanted him to be a stand-still shooter instead.

    I think its fairly obvious we're barking on the wrong tree here, i really dont think its the player's fault, because they were traded for or signed to this team because of what they can do, not because of what they should do. I mean you cant really say "oh theyre not team players" because its up to the coach and GM to figure out which player they should get to fit the team, not getting a player and forcing them to fit the team.

    What do you guys think?
    you have a point. but, isn't the point to try and mould these guys into the player that will fit your team?

    i mean maybe they are trying to steep of a learning curve. i think instead of trying to mould this team into a certain way. triano should just say go out there and have fun.

    hell, it can't hurt, can it?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    I think they do need to let Hedo handle the ball more, but as far crunch time went this year - I remember plenty of times the Raptors would iso him or run a pick and roll late in the 4th quarter and all he did was toss up brick after brick. I can only recall 2 times he came through, and one was against the Lakers when the refs bailed him out on a drive - though to his credit he did hit both FT's.

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you have a point. but, isn't the point to try and mould these guys into the player that will fit your team?
    I don't think there's any more moulding to be done for a 30 year old forward who has an established reputation in the league, or for a 32 year old has-been centre ruined by injuries for the past few years.

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