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Thread: ESPN Rumour: Bosh for Bynum Done Deal?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Rookie A00715890's Avatar
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    Quote A00715890 wrote: View Post
    ya whatever...johnson has never been a starter....while bynum is the starter for the current champs...if you think johnson is better than bynum right now....then your outta you mind...
    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You keep thinking that way.

    Watch and learn over the next couple of years.

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    From an X's and O's standpoint if you have to keep players like Bargs and Turkoglu, you need a rock in the post like Bynum. The Raps could then try an Orlando-type formula. But the Lakers would be significantly changed. Who would defend the post for them? Sure, they'd score like Derek Jeter in Ft. Lauderdale during the March Break, but offense alone will not carry the day.

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    So Maggette gets condemned for not playing on a winner in his career and Bosh gets praised for knowing how to deal with losses and a grueling 82 game schedule. Seems like they are both in the same boat. Both guys are great at putting up good numbers on bad teams.

    I'm down to resign Bosh simply because the raptors won't see a player of his value come along very often, but his super max contract will be one of the worst in the league and if it can turned into a player of Bynums franchise altering potential, its ridiculous to not jump at that opportunity.

    Aside from the obvious character disparities what is the difference between Chris Bosh and Zach Randolph?

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I love Johnson and his motor. The only problem is whether he can stay in games. He's a hack machine. He's gotta work on that. He's athletic enough to stay with bigs, he just has to use his hands and positioning better. You can't go wrong with both him and Bynum on the same team. Imagine Bynum at the 5 and Johnson at the 4? It's almost drool-worthy if you're a Raptors fan.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Okay lets compare some numbers from this season.

    Games played Bynum 65 Johnson 82
    Points per 36 minutes as a starter Bynum 17.8 Johnson 19.6
    Rebounds per 36 minutes Bynum 9.9 Johnson 9.8
    Total Rebounding % Bynum 15.3% Johnson 16.1%
    True Field Goal % Bynum .608 Johnson .639
    Effective Field Goal % Bynum .570 Johnson .623

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bynuman01.html

    Defensive Rating - Team points allowed per 100 possessions when on the court vs when off the court. The bigger the negative number the better.

    Bynum 103.33 vs 103.34 or -1.01
    Johnson 107.92 vs 116.17 or -8.25

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...r=ASC&team=TOR

    Opponents Field Goal Percentage on court vs off court - The smaller the number the better

    Bynum 48.6% vs 48.3% or plus .3%
    Johnson 48.0% vs 53.1% or minus 5.1%

    Fouls per 36 minutes as a starter
    ----------------------------------------
    Bynum 3.6
    Johnson 4.0

    So fouls per 36 minutes as a starter is the only category that Bynum beat Johnson in and the difference was not that much.

    In addition

    1. Johnson has no problem being motivated
    2. So far, cross fingers and toes, Bynum as been far more injury prone.
    nice analysis. but youre missing the 3 most key things for the raptors:

    blks
    Johnson - .8
    Bynum - 1.5

    height
    johnson - 6'9"
    bynum - 7'0"

    position
    johnson - PF
    bynum - C

    are you seriously considering playing a frontline of hedo, bargs and amir? against lets say shaq, jamison and lebron? or perkins, KG and pierce? id be happy to have Amir back, but he cant be a solid starter. he can be a starter if bargs goes down, but other than that, i think he's more a role player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    So Maggette gets condemned for not playing on a winner in his career and Bosh gets praised for knowing how to deal with losses and a grueling 82 game schedule. Seems like they are both in the same boat. Both guys are great at putting up good numbers on bad teams.

    I'm down to resign Bosh simply because the raptors won't see a player of his value come along very often, but his super max contract will be one of the worst in the league and if it can turned into a player of Bynums franchise altering potential, its ridiculous to not jump at that opportunity.

    Aside from the obvious character disparities what is the difference between Chris Bosh and Zach Randolph?
    i dont think it was mentioned in the same context. magette going from crappy team to barely playoff team is so-so, but bosh going to barely playoff team to contender makes more sense. id be happy to resign bosh too if bargs will be coming off the bench. i think the killer Bs experiment should be over and never be tried again, you cant have a jumpshooting PF playing with a 3 pt seeking center. you have to have a big inside.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    So Maggette gets condemned for not playing on a winner in his career and Bosh gets praised for knowing how to deal with losses and a grueling 82 game schedule. Seems like they are both in the same boat. Both guys are great at putting up good numbers on bad teams.

    I'm down to resign Bosh simply because the raptors won't see a player of his value come along very often, but his super max contract will be one of the worst in the league and if it can turned into a player of Bynums franchise altering potential, its ridiculous to not jump at that opportunity.

    Aside from the obvious character disparities what is the difference between Chris Bosh and Zach Randolph?
    i think mobility and agility. bosh tends to get out of double teams while zach gets stuck. bosh uses more moves while zach relies on brute force.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    When was the last time that Maggette played on a team with a winning record?

    Answer 2005-06. That has been the only year in Maggette's 11 years in the league that he has ever played on a winning team. In the meantime he has played on some pretty awful teams during those 11 years.

    Why would the Raptors want a guy who for all intense in purposes has never played on a winning NBA team over 11 years?

    You could say it is not his fault, but there is a reason that some guys spend most of their career toiling for lousy teams and it is not because they know how to win.

    2 thumbs down to the Raptors acquiring Maggette.
    Wasn't this the case with a guy named Jamal Crawford, 09-10 Sixth Man Of The Year Award winner Jamal Crawford? Sometimes it's not always the player themselves but the teams they play for. Crawford finally got the chance to be on a winning team and has flourished this season. I'd do a Calderon for Maggette swap in a heartbeat!
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  9. #49
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    Ohh ya done deal....
    i hate when people say things like that
    if it were done it would of happened at the deadline but the LA brass said that it wasnt true

    strap in guys theres going to be "done deals" untill he's dealt

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Wasn't this the case with a guy named Jamal Crawford, 09-10 Sixth Man Of The Year Award winner Jamal Crawford? Sometimes it's not always the player themselves but the teams they play for. Crawford finally got the chance to be on a winning team and has flourished this season. I'd do a Calderon for Maggette swap in a heartbeat!
    perfect example. ive been vouching for magette since the warriors got him, i was hoping we'd snatch him but we got hedo instead. he would be good for us, maybe we can make him the next 6th man of the year.

  11. #51
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Aside from the obvious character disparities what is the difference between Chris Bosh and Zach Randolph?
    Zach is a far better low post player, Chris is a far better face up player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    If we can get Haywood and Magette on a 3 team deal for Bosh and Calderon, that would be awesome, but theyd probably eat Jay Triano alive.

    Haywood
    Bargs
    Hedo
    Magette
    Jack

    wowza.

  13. #53
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Wasn't this the case with a guy named Jamal Crawford, 09-10 Sixth Man Of The Year Award winner Jamal Crawford? Sometimes it's not always the player themselves but the teams they play for. Crawford finally got the chance to be on a winning team and has flourished this season. I'd do a Calderon for Maggette swap in a heartbeat!
    You are half correct I am afraid....Crawford did play for a winning team (Hawks..and as a sub) while Maggette would potentially be coming to a losing team (the Raps the last 2 yrs.) and be a starter. I dont know that this is a good analogy.

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    Check out Bynum's NBA info page.



    It's meant to be!

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    So Maggette gets condemned for not playing on a winner in his career and Bosh gets praised for knowing how to deal with losses and a grueling 82 game schedule. Seems like they are both in the same boat. Both guys are great at putting up good numbers on bad teams.

    I'm down to resign Bosh simply because the raptors won't see a player of his value come along very often, but his super max contract will be one of the worst in the league and if it can turned into a player of Bynums franchise altering potential, its ridiculous to not jump at that opportunity.

    Aside from the obvious character disparities what is the difference between Chris Bosh and Zach Randolph?
    Big difference between Maggette and Bosh. First of all, in 11 seasons, Maggette has played in 1 playoff series. And Maggette is a below average defender and passer, mostly from playing on bad teams for most of his career. He's never really learned how to play on a winning team. Bosh, while he has played on more losing teams than winning teams, has shown he can play in a winning atmosphere and make a positive impact. Maggette has not.

    The problems when guys play on bad teams for so long is that they pick up bad habits and it becomes ingrained in their game. Maggette came into the league pretty raw, and if he went to a winning team that could develop him, he could have become a much better player. But over the years, he never learned to focus on defense and playing on losing teams usually means playing on selfish teams, so passing was not important.

    And as for the differences between Randolph and Bosh, the two biggest ones are defense and passing. While Bosh is by no means a great passer, he's LeBron James compared to Randolph. And Randolph simply is a bad defensive player. It's hard to win when you've got a below average defender as a big man.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    I'm also in the "not a huge fan of Bynum" party, but at this point his sheer potential intrigues me and he would be one of (if not the best) better options we've heard regarding any sign & trade deals pertaining to Bosh.

    I love Lee, but he'd be a terrible fit to this existing line-up assuming that we're removing Bosh and replacing him with David. We'd hands down be the worst defensive team of all-time.
    BTW, welcome to the RR Forums RPT23.
    you say that. but, you know the worst defensive team ever is probably the suns and hey 54 wins this season and looks like there going to go at least to the second round in a tough west conference against a gritty defensive team like the trailblazers.

    i ain't sayin, i'm just saying, if lee get's a double double every night that solves our rebounding problem if we insert weems and jack that gives us some defense. derozan tries playing d, he's not the best at it but hey he's not awful and at least he tries.

    i'm honestly, more high on getting lee than bynum, i don't know i just feel with a decent defensive backcourt and a good offensive frountcourt and a rebounding machine in lee, we could go far.

    the only reason we did do as poor as we did was because turkoglu was an out of shape bum and when bosh went down we had no leader. I actually think we'll be better without bosh, but i think it's a smarter move to ship him out west that way we could only meet him in the championship series.
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you say that. but, you know the worst defensive team ever is probably the suns and hey 54 wins this season and looks like there going to go at least to the second round in a tough west conference against a gritty defensive team like the trailblazers.

    i ain't sayin, i'm just saying, if lee get's a double double every night that solves our rebounding problem if we insert weems and jack that gives us some defense. derozan tries playing d, he's not the best at it but hey he's not awful and at least he tries.

    i'm honestly, more high on getting lee than bynum, i don't know i just feel with a decent defensive backcourt and a good offensive frountcourt and a rebounding machine in lee, we could go far.

    the only reason we did do as poor as we did was because turkoglu was an out of shape bum and when bosh went down we had no leader. I actually think we'll be better without bosh, but i think it's a smarter move to ship him out west that way we could only meet him in the championship series.
    The 2 largest flaws defensively of the Raps are that a) we have/had no interior aggressive presence b) no good defensive presence at the point of attack (guard defense).

    Getting someone like Lee will not help assist with these deficiencies. He does not have very good lateral movement nor jumping/shot blocking ability. Re: the Suns they have Lopez as a big who has done very well this year intimidating interior offense and while Nash is defensively challenged his 2 guard Barbosa helps quite well.

    Imo therefore, possibilities like Bynum from LA or Scola from Houston are better fits for the Raptors going forward. Addressing the guard situation (prime attrib. being quickness which not only helps move the ball but also helps on defense around picks and switching) as well as better coaching for the Raptors should improve team next season.

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you say that. but, you know the worst defensive team ever is probably the suns and hey 54 wins this season and looks like there going to go at least to the second round in a tough west conference against a gritty defensive team like the trailblazers.

    i ain't sayin, i'm just saying, if lee get's a double double every night that solves our rebounding problem if we insert weems and jack that gives us some defense. derozan tries playing d, he's not the best at it but hey he's not awful and at least he tries.

    i'm honestly, more high on getting lee than bynum, i don't know i just feel with a decent defensive backcourt and a good offensive frountcourt and a rebounding machine in lee, we could go far.

    the only reason we did do as poor as we did was because turkoglu was an out of shape bum and when bosh went down we had no leader. I actually think we'll be better without bosh, but i think it's a smarter move to ship him out west that way we could only meet him in the championship series.
    Two major problem with your argument, Cochise. The first is that Phoenix is not nearly as bad defensively as you seem to think. They're not great, but they certainly aren't historically bad and they've got some pretty good defenders on the roster. The second, and most important reason, is that the reason the Suns won 54 games this season was due to the fact that their point guard is Steve Nash. Without him, that team does no better than the Raptors this year.

    Besides, wanting to be like Phoenix is all well and good, but teams like Phoenix have never, ever won a Championship. While it's certainly possible to find success trying to outscore your opponent, the best way to find success is to defend. A front court of Bargnani, Lee and Turkoglu can't win. Period. Not unless you've got Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant as your back court, and the Raptors certainly don't have that.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    You are half correct I am afraid....Crawford did play for a winning team (Hawks..and as a sub) while Maggette would potentially be coming to a losing team (the Raps the last 2 yrs.) and be a starter. I dont know that this is a good analogy.
    The point was that he played for a "loser" his whole career and he became integral part of a team that has become very good when the opportunity came about. I'm not saying Maggette is a superstar or anything, but if he was on the Raps they'd be much better because I'm sure we all agree the Raps are missing a nice wing player and I think he fits the bill.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    The point was that he played for a "loser" his whole career and he became integral part of a team that has become very good when the opportunity came about. I'm not saying Maggette is a superstar or anything, but if he was on the Raps they'd be much better because I'm sure we all agree the Raps are missing a nice wing player and I think he fits the bill.
    I really think Maggette could be an all-star in the East.

    With Bosh likely leaving the Raps, since he accounted for at least 40% of our FTA (educated guess) - and we were near the botton of the league in that stat - we could use a player with Maggette's skill set to make up that difference.

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