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Thread: Arse Says Offer Johnson No More Than $3.5 Million

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default Arse Says Offer Johnson No More Than $3.5 Million

    If he won't accept it let him walk

    Sign Amir Johnson to a three year deal no more than $3.5M/yr, if he doesn’t take it, let him walk.
    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2010/05/1...down-madness/#

    Okay Raptors fans and other fans trolling here can weigh in also

    Haggle or No Haggle on Arse's statement.

    What saith you all?

    I say haggle and offer him $4.5 to $5.0 million in the first year.
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I keep thinking about the CBA negotiations... Not sure this is the time to be a premium on potential. $5M sounds steep.

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    Amir Johnson needs to improve to get big bucks. If we can sign him for 3.5-4mil, go for it and don't look back. But I guess he thinks he deserves more.

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    $5 million for a guy like Amir will never be a bad contract, especially if it's for just 3 years. Glen Davis makes only $3 million, but he was a restricted free agent, which limits a player's options and brings down his price. I'd certainly open with a $3 million over 3 years, then two, but I'd have no problem going up to $5 million. He's a better and more skilled player than Reggie Evans, who will make $5 million this season.

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    Amir is a gonner if you only offer him 3.5 mil. He can easily get more than this elsewhere.


    edit: Basically, the market price for a 6'9-6'10 big who finishes well, rebounds, and defends is much higher than 3.5 mil. Even if you only see him as a 20 minute a night roleplayer. Like, you shouldn't piss away the opportunity to lock up cheap assets just because you are too cheap. Amir's first preference will be to stay in TO if the money is equal. He might take slightly less money to stay with the Raps, since there will be plenty of PT with Bosh gone. But if you low-ball him, he will bounce..
    Last edited by Ripp; Mon May 17th, 2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason: .

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Tim, if someone wanted Davis they could have placed an offer higher than $3M. There is no penalty for losing a bid on a restricted FA. Reggie Evans is overpaid. Not sure he's the best case to justify $5M. If it were then Hedo's contract doesn't look so bad because Kapono was getting $6M/yr just to take a couple shots a game.

    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    Amir is a gonner if you only offer him 3.5 mil. He can easily get more than this elsewhere.
    Don't they have his Bird Rights, right to match? Not sure. Can anyone verify this?

    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    edit: Basically, the market price for a 6'9-6'10 big who finishes well, rebounds, and defends is much higher than 3.5 mil. Even if you only see him as a 20 minute a night roleplayer. Like, you shouldn't piss away the opportunity to lock up cheap assets just because you are too cheap. Amir's first preference will be to stay in TO if the money is equal. He might take slightly less money to stay with the Raps, since there will be plenty of PT with Bosh gone. But if you low-ball him, he will bounce..
    With half the league losing money and a new CBA coming that will probably significantly cut the cap number, are you sure? I think the climate is changing.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon May 17th, 2010 at 11:28 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie TM Williamson's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'd certainly open with a $3 million over 3 years, then two, but I'd have no problem going up to $5 million. He's a better and more skilled player than Reggie Evans, who will make $5 million this season.
    That sounds about right to me. I'd love to get him for around 4, but I can see demand pushing that number up to 5.

    Like you said, he's basically a younger, more skilled, and more athletic version of Reggie. On top of that, it seems that everyone associated with the team loves the guy, from coaches to media to fans. With the way he played this year, and the fact that he's still got some untapped potential, I highly doubt 3.5 will be enough to keep him.

    Any higher than 5 isn't worth it though, in my opinion.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Tim, if someone wanted Davis they could have placed an offer higher than $3M. There is no penalty for losing a bid on a restricted
    This is not entirely correct. A team that has the free agent resigning rights to a player has up to one week to match.

    The team who makes an offer to a restricted free agent has that money added to their team salary for that week regardless of whether or not the original team matches.

    That means that if a team makes a restricted free agent an offer of say $5 million they lose the availability of that money for any other use during that week.

    If you only offer $3 million you lose access to that $3 million for one week regardless or less if the other team matches in less than one week. If you offer $5 million you lose access to that $5 million for one week regardless. So in some cases offering that extra money can tie up more money than a team wants for a week. Teams might be reluctant to do this if they are working on another deal where the $2 million difference is important.

    Now, I admit that the chances of this happening are slim but not impossible. So I would agree with your statement as a general statement but am just adding that your statement may not always apply.
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    Amir is an UFA...Raps are competing on the open market against all other teams.

    Comparing Reggie Evans to Amir is ridiculous. If you want, compare him to Amare minus the faceup game...that would be a more accurate comparison.

    In any case, even 4 million is very unlikely to get the job done. If the Raps are unwilling to bring him back, so be it. But that is just another asset lost, imo.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Don't they have his Bird Rights, right to match? Not sure. Can anyone verify this?
    Johnson will be a free agent come July 1st. Whatever Bird rights that the Raptors have only has to do with the fact that they can offer more than another team up and until he signs with another team. However, offering more does not mean that Johnson has to accept that higher offer.

    I don't think that the Raptors will have to offer more than a another team does in order to keep him.

    In fact I agree with the statement that the Raptors could probably offer a little less in the first year depending on the length of their offer and how much the total contract is for.

    My sense is that Johnson will get enough minutes to suit him playing for the Raptors with a chance for more minutes if he earns them.

    Triano really likes his game. Others will disagree with what I am about to write, so be it.

    Its seems to me that if Johnson, Bosh and Bargnani stay or even if the Raptors get a someone for Bosh who will start in his place that if Johnson earns more time including eventually starting say in place of Bargnani or who ever the Raptors might get to replace Bosh that Triano would have no problem giving it to him if he does in fact earn it.

    I see no limit on Johnson's potential minutes playing for the Raptors provided he earns those minutes. Whether he starts or not in the future for the Raptors as long as Triano is the coach and Johnson earns the right to start or finish which is more important than starting.

    Odom doesn't start for the Lakers but he on the court more often than Bynum in the latter stretches of the 4th quarter.
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    Comparing Reggie Evans to Amir is ridiculous. If you want, compare him to Amare minus the faceup game...that would be a more accurate comparison.
    i'm sorry, how are amir & amare similar again? besides, of course, their names?
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    Amir is an UFA...Raps are competing on the open market against all other teams.

    Comparing Reggie Evans to Amir is ridiculous. If you want, compare him to Amare minus the faceup game...that would be a more accurate comparison.

    In any case, even 4 million is very unlikely to get the job done. If the Raps are unwilling to bring him back, so be it. But that is just another asset lost, imo.
    You know I have thought about that exact same comparison on what you just posted about comparing Johnson to Amare except for the face up game. However, I wasn't ready to jump there until I saw what Johnson did next season. However, since you brought it up I will say that I concur with two exceptions.

    1. Johnson still fouls too much and Amare doesn't
    2. Johnson is already a better defender. How much better, I won't go there.
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i'm sorry, how are amir & amare similar again? besides, of course, their names?
    Watch the game tonight and when Amare makes a play on offense other than his face up jump shots see if you can remember Johnson doing that exact same move with equal success. If you are honest with yourself about it you will see the strong comparison.
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i'm sorry, how are amir & amare similar again? besides, of course, their names?
    PnR and finishing at the hoop. The comparison is not perfect, but it is a lot better than the Reggie Evans comp.
    Last edited by Ripp; Mon May 17th, 2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: .

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    Raptors Republic Rookie TM Williamson's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    Comparing Reggie Evans to Amir is ridiculous. If you want, compare him to Amare minus the faceup game...that would be a more accurate comparison.
    One is a power forward whose role is rebounding, defense, and finishing around the rim. He brings energy off the bench, is limited offensively, and thrives on hustle plays.

    One is a power forward who is one of the premier offensive players in the NBA, is the primary scoring option on one of the league's best teams, and averages over 20 ppg for his career.

    You really think the second description is more appropriate for Amir? I get where you're coming from, and I agree his overall game is well ahead of Reggie Evans, but his role and playing style are similar. Amare averaged 20 a game even before Nash came to Phoenix, and that was also before he even really developed a face up game. I love Amir, but a Stoudemire comparison is giving him WAY too much credit offensively.

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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    PnR and finishing at the hoop. The comparison is not perfect, but it is a lot better than the Reggie Evans comp.
    The Reggie Evans comparison is a left over from last October

    Some folks are slow to change their opinions, which can be a healthy psychological trait, without seeing ample proof over time that something else is the reality.
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    Quote TM Williamson wrote: View Post
    One is a power forward whose role is rebounding, defense, and finishing around the rim. He brings energy off the bench, is limited offensively, and thrives on hustle plays.

    One is a power forward who is one of the premier offensive players in the NBA, is the primary scoring option on one of the league's best teams, and averages over 20 ppg for his career.

    You really think the second description is more appropriate for Amir? I get where you're coming from, and I agree his overall game is well ahead of Reggie Evans, but his role and playing style are similar. Amare averaged 20 a game even before Nash came to Phoenix, and that was also before he even really developed a face up game. I love Amir, but a Stoudemire comparison is giving him WAY too much credit offensively.
    Watch the game tonight and you will see that except for the post up jump shot they score in the same fashion. In fact Johnson is way superior at finishing than Amare.

    For example last season dunks Amare 90% and close 56%
    Johnson dunks 96% and close 69%

    Johnson also has better hands than Amare.

    http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR9.HTM

    The difference other than the face-up game is that Johnson's minutes and opportunities on offense had been limited before last season due to his foul problem.

    Triano finally gave him a chance last year and that along with the coaching of Alex English allowed Johnson to earn more opportunities on offense. He averaged 18 ppg as a starter last season, second best as a starter among all Raptors players. That is without having a strong face up jump shot like Amare does.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Watch the game tonight and you will see that except for the post up jump shot they score in the same fashion.
    Ok...and how exactly does Reggie Evans score? Outside jumpers? Dribble drives? Or would it be, you know, exactly the same?

    Every big man in the league that doesn't shoot outside jumpers scores on dunks and in close shots. That's the nature of the position. It doesn't mean every non-jump shooting big man is comparable to Amare. Does this mean that Chris Andersen is comparable to Amare? How about Joel Anthony? These guys all score on dunks and in close shots too.

    The difference, of course, is that Amare is better at it. Amir is a role player, Amare is a stud offensive performer. Thus, Amir should be compared to other role players, not stud offensive performers.

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    Big Dawg tweets good morning to all his fans in Toronto

    Good morning from the west coast, and good afternoon Toronto! I'm almost at 4000 followers! Tell a friend!

    http://twitter.com/IamAmirJohnson

    He does this pretty regularly if you follow his tweets. In fact he is the only Raptors player I know that consistently tweets good morning to his fans in Toronto.

    Lets here it for Big Dawg.
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    Quote TM Williamson wrote: View Post
    Ok...and how exactly does Reggie Evans score? Outside jumpers? Dribble drives? Or would it be, you know, exactly the same?

    Every big man in the league that doesn't shoot outside jumpers scores on dunks and in close shots. That's the nature of the position. It doesn't mean every non-jump shooting big man is comparable to Amare. Does this mean that Chris Andersen is comparable to Amare? How about Joel Anthony? These guys all score on dunks and in close shots too.

    The difference, of course, is that Amare is better at it. Amir is a role player, Amare is a stud offensive performer. Thus, Amir should be compared to other role players, not stud offensive performers.
    Whatever.

    That is why I posted on earlier on this thread that I wasn't going to bring it up at this point because I knew that most people couldn't see it. Be that as it may Raptors fans negative opinions about his game won't stop his progress. Triano has let the old cat, in this case Big Dawg, out of the bag and the game is now afoot.

    Watch next season and have your eyes opened to the future.

    I am now done with this thread. Adios for this thread for me.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Mon May 17th, 2010 at 12:55 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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