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Avery Bradley @ 13th (Update On Pg. 14)

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  • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Assists per 36 min.
    ------------------------------------------
    Billups last season at Colorado vs Bradley last season at Texas

    Billups----------------------------------- 5.3
    Bradley---------------------------------- 2.2
    A. Johnson as a Raptors starter-------2.0

    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...auncey-billups
    Hey, crazy thought here...But do you think that maybe Bradley's lack of assists in college might stem from the fact that, I dunno, he didn't play PG at Texas? I'm willing to guess that it might play into those numbers just a bit, right?

    I like Bradley's game, and I think his defense and athleticism would be great to have in our backcourt. That being said, he's raw as a playmaker, although I feel that on this Raptors team, we'll have time to let him develop. It's my opinion that the Raptors should enter a full rebuild mode, just tear it down and rebuild with the young assets that we have. If that means taking a project player at #13, I'm fine with it. Bradley has tremendous upside as well, so you can't dismiss that. I'm not completely sold with him at #13, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.

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    • robito wrote: View Post
      Hey, crazy thought here...But do you think that maybe Bradley's lack of assists in college might stem from the fact that, I dunno, he didn't play PG at Texas? I'm willing to guess that it might play into those numbers just a bit, right?

      I like Bradley's game, and I think his defense and athleticism would be great to have in our backcourt. That being said, he's raw as a playmaker, although I feel that on this Raptors team, we'll have time to let him develop. It's my opinion that the Raptors should enter a full rebuild mode, just tear it down and rebuild with the young assets that we have. If that means taking a project player at #13, I'm fine with it. Bradley has tremendous upside as well, so you can't dismiss that. I'm not completely sold with him at #13, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.
      Bradley didn't play PG at Texas, or in highschool, as far as I know. You know who also didn't play PG in college? Juan Dixon. Did you think maybe the reason he didn't was because he can't? Texas certainly didn't have very good options at PG, and when Bradley played at the point, he struggled.

      He has upside, but so do a lot more players have just as much upside without the risk. WHy not take one of them, instead?

      mo-sales wrote: View Post
      We don't know he can't play point guard, in Rondo's freshman year he only averaged 3.5 dimes. Bradley was the top rated player coming out of high school, how do you guys ignore that?

      He struggled in Texas and now his pro stock takes a nosedive?!?! The guy is a player and while he might struggle early on to play the point, I don't think he will struggle to be a successful NBA player. His only major weakness is his play making ability, which as a point guard is fairly glaring, but its not an insurmountable obstacle to overcome. While most combo guards who try and make it as a point fail, I have faith in Bradley.

      13th pick is toss up as far getting a legit NBA player, I'd much rather take a high risk, high reward guy than bank on some big being a solid rotation player.
      You know who else was a top rated high school player? Felip Lopez. So was Kwame Brown.

      And lack of playmaking pretty much IS an insurmountable obstacle for a PG.
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      • robito wrote: View Post
        Hey, crazy thought here...But do you think that maybe Bradley's lack of assists in college might stem from the fact that, I dunno, he didn't play PG at Texas? I'm willing to guess that it might play into those numbers just a bit, right?

        I like Bradley's game, and I think his defense and athleticism would be great to have in our backcourt. That being said, he's raw as a playmaker, although I feel that on this Raptors team, we'll have time to let him develop. It's my opinion that the Raptors should enter a full rebuild mode, just tear it down and rebuild with the young assets that we have. If that means taking a project player at #13, I'm fine with it. Bradley has tremendous upside as well, so you can't dismiss that. I'm not completely sold with him at #13, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.
        Could be but when Westbrook teamed up with Collison at UCLA in 2007-08

        APG
        ----------
        Collison ------------3.8
        Westbrook ---------4.3
        -----------------------------
        That is---------------8.1 APG combined on a team that averaged 73.5 ppg
        =============

        Bradley averaged 2.1 APG on a team that averaged 81.2 ppg

        Jordan Hamilton SF and SG averaged 2.7 assists per 36 minutes compared to Bradley's 2.2 So I don't buy the argument that because he wasn't the PG. The fact is that when he had the ball in his hands he rarely passed it. I already posted those numbers on this thread. You don't have to be the official PG, whatever that means, to pass the ball to another teammate when they are open. Bradley will shoot first, shoot second and pass as an afterthought. Maybe that is due to the fact that his assists/turnover ratio was so bad that he didn't want to pass for fear of turning the ball over.

        http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=31663

        http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/...d=26&year=2008

        http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=251
        Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Jun 10, 2010, 06:46 PM.
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        • Workouts News And Raptors Considering Bradley At 13?

          There’s no question the team would like a center so that, if Bosh leaves, head coach Jay Triano can move Andrea Bargnani to his more natural position at the four. However, the Raptors believe that they’ll get a big in any sign-and-trade for Bosh, so team need isn’t limiting their options in the draft right now.
          The team is also in a critical point in workouts. They had in Daniel Orton, Ekpe Udoh and Cole Aldrich in last week for workouts and will have in Hassan Whiteside and Solomon Alabi in early this week.
          Later this week the Raptors will look at potential replacements for all both positions. They’ll have Eric Bledsoe, Paul George and Xavier Henry in for a workouts. All three players are in the mix at 13. Avery Bradley was also scheduled to be in the workout but an ankle sprain forced him to cancel the workout. Sources say Bradley may be the Raptors pick at No. 13 if none of the Top 10 players in the draft slip.
          Source: ESPN.com

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          • The way I see this whole Bradley issue is if he shows the ability to play point guard during his workouts, he will be picked and if he doesn't show that ability he will be passed on. We can argue that he can't or can play the point all we want but the fact of the matter is no one really knows and saying he for sure can't or he definitely will be able to is impossible. I am confident that our talent guys will work him out, watch his decision making and his passing ability and make a call on whether or not he can be an NBA point guard. If we take him it will not be because of what he has done in Texas or in high school, it will be because men who know a lot more than us and have watched him worked out and talked to him one on one decided he can make the transition to point guard and be successful. It's the same issue I have with people saying Bargnani will fail at the four, if a guy has never played a position and has many of the skills that position requires, how can you be so sure he can't?
            That said, I think Bradley has all of the tools he needs to become a good point guard, particularly his speed and his jumper. The athleticism a back court of him and DeRozen would be among the best in the NBA and I think if we have a couple other athletic guys on with them (say Amir and Sonny) we would be a very difficult team to match up with. We would be tremendous on the break if nothing else.
            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

            -Churchill

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            • Ford said Bradley canceled his workout due to an ankle sprain..

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              • hateslosing wrote: View Post
                The way I see this whole Bradley issue is if he shows the ability to play point guard during his workouts, he will be picked and if he doesn't show that ability he will be passed on. We can argue that he can't or can play the point all we want but the fact of the matter is no one really knows and saying he for sure can't or he definitely will be able to is impossible. I am confident that our talent guys will work him out, watch his decision making and his passing ability and make a call on whether or not he can be an NBA point guard. If we take him it will not be because of what he has done in Texas or in high school, it will be because men who know a lot more than us and have watched him worked out and talked to him one on one decided he can make the transition to point guard and be successful. It's the same issue I have with people saying Bargnani will fail at the four, if a guy has never played a position and has many of the skills that position requires, how can you be so sure he can't?
                That said, I think Bradley has all of the tools he needs to become a good point guard, particularly his speed and his jumper. The athleticism a back court of him and DeRozen would be among the best in the NBA and I think if we have a couple other athletic guys on with them (say Amir and Sonny) we would be a very difficult team to match up with. We would be tremendous on the break if nothing else.
                How does one show the ability to play PG in workouts when most workouts (if not all) are them alone in a gym?

                And no one has ever said that Bargnani will fail at four. You're misunderstanding the argument. The argument is that he's not playing out of position at the center spot. I've never felt he would fail at the four, but he's simply better suited to the center position.

                And exactly what tools does Bradley have to play PG? Speed and a jumper are NOT tools to play PG. They are tools to play SG. Does he have the ability to run an offense? Does he have the ability to make those around him better? Does he have the ability to handle the ball well under pressure? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then he doesn't have the skills to play PG.
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                • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  How does one show the ability to play PG in workouts when most workouts (if not all) are them alone in a gym?

                  And no one has ever said that Bargnani will fail at four. You're misunderstanding the argument. The argument is that he's not playing out of position at the center spot. I've never felt he would fail at the four, but he's simply better suited to the center position.

                  And exactly what tools does Bradley have to play PG? Speed and a jumper are NOT tools to play PG. They are tools to play SG. Does he have the ability to run an offense? Does he have the ability to make those around him better? Does he have the ability to handle the ball well under pressure? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then he doesn't have the skills to play PG.
                  You're right, I did misunderstand the argument. I suppose my reasoning was that a lot of the people who think he is more fit to play center are also usually the people who think he isn't a particularly good player. So if they think he's not great at his natural position, these people would likely believe he would be downright awful at a position he is not suited to.

                  Speed is most definitely a good thing for a point guard to have, that is not a new concept. Is the answer to those questions no Tim W.? Does he have the ability to handle the ball well under pressure or to act as a play maker? I personally don't know, but I don't think you do either. As far as I know, the guy has never had the chance to play the point consistently and there is very little evidence that says he can't or can beyond the fact he has yet to do it. People point to his assist numbers and say, "look he isn't a playmaker". Well duh, of course his assist numbers are low, he played shooting guard. Also, I believe they work them out in groups in order to see things like decision making and passing ability, but perhaps I am mistaken. Point is, I think it is very premature to start saying he cannot play the point in this league. He will never be able to play shooting guard because his vaunted defense would be useless against guys who are 6'7" and athletic like DeRozen so the point is the position he is going to play one way or another. I'm not saying you're wrong about him either, he could very well be an awful point guard and be out of the league in 3 years, I'm just saying that the argument you have used thus far doesn't hold water since you have no accurate data pool from which to draw conclusions.
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • RR Picks Bradley

                    The TrueHoop Network is doing its annual Mock Draft, thought we’d share what’s going on so far. We here at RR are banking on Steve to call it two years in a row and are picking Avery Bradley with the 13th pick.
                    13. Toronto: Avery Bradley, Raptors Republic. Has agreed to drive Calderon and Jack to the airport.
                    Source: Raptors Republic

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                    • hateslosing wrote: View Post
                      You're right, I did misunderstand the argument. I suppose my reasoning was that a lot of the people who think he is more fit to play center are also usually the people who think he isn't a particularly good player. So if they think he's not great at his natural position, these people would likely believe he would be downright awful at a position he is not suited to.

                      Speed is most definitely a good thing for a point guard to have, that is not a new concept. Is the answer to those questions no Tim W.? Does he have the ability to handle the ball well under pressure or to act as a play maker? I personally don't know, but I don't think you do either. As far as I know, the guy has never had the chance to play the point consistently and there is very little evidence that says he can't or can beyond the fact he has yet to do it. People point to his assist numbers and say, "look he isn't a playmaker". Well duh, of course his assist numbers are low, he played shooting guard. Also, I believe they work them out in groups in order to see things like decision making and passing ability, but perhaps I am mistaken. Point is, I think it is very premature to start saying he cannot play the point in this league. He will never be able to play shooting guard because his vaunted defense would be useless against guys who are 6'7" and athletic like DeRozen so the point is the position he is going to play one way or another. I'm not saying you're wrong about him either, he could very well be an awful point guard and be out of the league in 3 years, I'm just saying that the argument you have used thus far doesn't hold water since you have no accurate data pool from which to draw conclusions.
                      Speed is definitely a good thing to have, but you said speed and a good jumper were the tools of a good PG. What I meant was that speed and a good jumper are what you look for in a SG, whereas a PG needs other tools, but speed and a jumper certainly are important. Far more important is the ability to run a team, handle the ball and pass. And you're right, I don't know for sure whether Bradley can do it, but there are simply no indications he can. Even in workouts, apparently, he's shooting in pick and roll situations rather than passing, which is what Bledsoe is doing. Generally, guards like Bradley will show they have the ability to play PG in workouts to show they have the tools to make the transition. Bradley hasn't even done that. Everything I've seen and read of him tells me he's a scorer, plain and simple. It's incredibly difficult to turn a scorer into a passer because it's engrained in them.

                      To me, turning Bradley into a PG is akin to turning Jamario Moon into point forward. Neither have exhibited any skills that would make you think they could become one. A guy like Evan Turner has shown he is a good passer, but Bradley hasn't even shown that. And it's not as if Bradley didn't have talented players to pass to. He just didn't pass much.
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