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Avery Bradley @ 13th (Update On Pg. 14)

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  • #76
    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    So you are saying that the Raptors should start Bradley at the PG or have Turk come off the bench and play 15 mpg.

    Okay if you say so.
    Nope I never said that. I meant Turk could run the offense from the Starting Small Forward position with Bradley as the "point guard".

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    • #77
      santimo wrote: View Post
      Nope I never said that. I meant Turk could run the offense from the Starting Small Forward position with Bradley as the "point guard".
      That is what you are saying. Bradley should start at PG along with Turk at the SF.
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      “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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      • #78
        The scary thing about all this is that Marcus Banks was known for his defensive abilities, being a combo guard and being drafted 13th ovrall.

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        • #79
          Buddahfan wrote: View Post
          That is what you are saying. Bradley should start at PG along with Turk at the SF.
          Ok so we agree on that. But I don't know where you got "have Turk come off the bench and play 15 mpg. from. I know I didn't say that.

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          • #80
            santimo wrote: View Post
            Nope I never said that. I meant Turk could run the offense from the Starting Small Forward position with Bradley as the "point guard".
            What happens when Turkoglu stops being productive in 2 or 3 years? What do you do with your 6'1 PG who can't pass, then?
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            • #81
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              What happens when Turkoglu stops being productive in 2 or 3 years? What do you do with your 6'1 PG who can't pass, then?
              Then you deal with it in 2 or 3 years.... But who's to say he can't improve in that department in 2 or 3 years, he's clearly not a finished product yet. A lot of people said the same thing about Russell Westbrook and he turned out ok. The guy can knock down shots and is a good, athletic slasher.

              But I don't really think the offense is the big problem with the Raptors. I like him more because of the fact that he can defend his position really well which is something that the Raps so sorely lack. It seemed like all season other team's PGs were having career games against the Raps. It's the starting point of our almost record-bad defense.

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              • #82
                santimo wrote: View Post
                Then you deal with it in 2 or 3 years.... But who's to say he can't improve in that department in 2 or 3 years, he's clearly not a finished product yet. A lot of people said the same thing about Russell Westbrook and he turned out ok. The guy can knock down shots and is a good, athletic slasher.

                But I don't really think the offense is the big problem with the Raptors. I like him more because of the fact that he can defend his position really well which is something that the Raps so sorely lack. It seemed like all season other team's PGs were having career games against the Raps. It's the starting point of our almost record-bad defense.
                In two or three years, it will be too late for Bradley to make the transition. If you're going to draft him, you have to make him play PG right from the start and never play off the ball. Westbrook was able to make the transition because he started playing PG with the ball right away.

                I don't see the point of drafting a 19 year old combo guard who will probably take a couple of years to develop in order play with a 31 year old point forward who probably only has a couple of good year left. That seems like incredibly flawed logic, to me. Now if you want to draft Bradley because you think he can be a PG, then you have to stop him playing off the ball or it will never work.
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                • #83
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  In two or three years, it will be too late for Bradley to make the transition. If you're going to draft him, you have to make him play PG right from the start and never play off the ball. Westbrook was able to make the transition because he started playing PG with the ball right away.

                  I don't see the point of drafting a 19 year old combo guard who will probably take a couple of years to develop in order play with a 31 year old point forward who probably only has a couple of good year left. That seems like incredibly flawed logic, to me. Now if you want to draft Bradley because you think he can be a PG, then you have to stop him playing off the ball or it will never work.
                  Sorry this statement is incorrect. I have been a Bruins fan for 40 years and I can tell you that Westbrook played PG when he was on the court together with Callison who played the SG because of his ability to make the three point shot.

                  In 2007-08 Westbrook's last season at UCLA he averaged more assists per game than Collison did. That is a fact.
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                  Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                  “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                  Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                  • #84
                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    Sorry this statement is incorrect. I have been a Bruins fan for 40 years and I can tell you that Westbrook played PG when he was on the court together with Callison who played the SG because of his ability to make the three point shot.

                    In 2007-08 Westbrook's last season at UCLA he averaged more assists per game than Collison did. That is a fact.
                    The statement is not incorrect. I simply said he played PG from day one for the Thunder. He was a combo guard coming into the league, but played some PG in college, unlike Bradley. The point is that in order to make the transition to PG you have to start playing it from day one. Otherwise it won't happen.
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                    • #85
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      The statement is not incorrect. I simply said he played PG from day one for the Thunder. He was a combo guard coming into the league, but played some PG in college, unlike Bradley. The point is that in order to make the transition to PG you have to start playing it from day one. Otherwise it won't happen.
                      Wrong, wrong and more wrong. Westbrook was a PG at UCLA who rarely played the SG.

                      The reason is simple. When he was at UCLA the Bruins had two PGs, Westbrook and Collison. Collison could shoot and Westbrook couldn't, so when Westbrook was on the court with or with out Collison he played the PG position. On defense he would defend the #2 but on offense he played PG. Does this mean that Collison didn't handle the ball when Westbrook was on the court. Of course not, but Westbrook was the PG, straight up.
                      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                      Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                      “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                      • #86
                        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                        Wrong, wrong and more wrong. Westbrook was a PG at UCLA who rarely played the SG.

                        The reason is simple. When he was at UCLA the Bruins had two PGs, Westbrook and Collison. Collison could shoot and Westbrook couldn't, so when Westbrook was on the court with or with out Collison he played the PG position. On defense he would defend the #2 but on offense he played PG. Does this mean that Collison didn't handle the ball when Westbrook was on the court. Of course not, but Westbrook was the PG, straight up.
                        You've watched more Bruin games than me, obviously, but this is what Draft Express had to say about Westbrook:

                        WEAKNESSES:
                        - All-around offensive polish
                        - Mid-range game
                        - Not a true point guard
                        - Ability to create own shot
                        - Average ball-handler
                        - Not ready to contribute immediately
                        - Tweener?
                        - Size for position
                        - Undersized
                        - Average shooter

                        It’s still not quite clear what position Westbrook will play in the NBA, even if it could probably be said that his upside is so high that he can just figure that out down the road. He lacks significant experience at the point guard position, and probably isn’t a good enough shooter/ball-handler/shot-creator to be considered a starting caliber shooting guard, particularly since he lacks size for the position at 6-3
                        .

                        My point, however, has nothing to do with what Westbrook did in college, but that the Thunder played him at PG right away, which is why he has become more of a natural PG. If they had played him off the ball, he wouldn't be where he is now.
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                        • #87
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          You've watched more Bruin games than me, obviously, but this is what Draft Express had to say about Westbrook:

                          .

                          My point, however, has nothing to do with what Westbrook did in college, but that the Thunder played him at PG right away, which is why he has become more of a natural PG. If they had played him off the ball, he wouldn't be where he is now.
                          Why would they play him off the ball? He is a natural point guard who really couldn't shoot effectively beyond 15'.

                          I don't know whether Bradley can be compared to Westbrook or not. Statistically and from what have I read Bradley matches up a lot better with Jrue Holiday who I did see play a lot in college.

                          It seems to me that the Raptors need to draft a guy who can play up front defend and rebound. Damion James would be my choice. He is a good size for a #3 but I believe a bit short for a #4. However can rebound (10.3 rpg in 30 mpg last season) and is an excellent scorer, shooter and defender. He is also a senior has a NBA body and is NBA ready. DraftExpress has him going #16.

                          I think he could step in and play rotation minutes from the gitgo. How Triano would work it out, assuming no trades, between Hedo, James and Weems I am not sure

                          STRENGTHS:
                          - Ability to get to free throw line
                          - Off-ball movement
                          - Timing
                          - Transition play
                          - Activity level
                          - Commitment to playing defense
                          - Versatility to defend multiple positions
                          - Aggressiveness
                          - Energy/Intensity
                          - Physical Toughness
                          - Role-player potential
                          - Ability to finish around basket
                          - Ability to finish through contact
                          - Athleticism
                          - NBA body
                          - Wingspan
                          - Rebounding ability
                          http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damion-James-1074/
                          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                          Memories some so sweet, indeed

                          Larger Photo of the avatar



                          “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            By the way Holiday came to UCLA as a combo guard. However, at UCLA he played mostly off the ball while Collison played PG at least while they were on the court together. Then when he got to the 76ers they played him at PG at least in the games that I watched.
                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Ya, Holiday is probably a better comparison. I was not the one who brought up Westbrook. I wasn't quite sure it was a valid comparison, as Westbrook did have more PG skills than Bradley does. The difference between Holiday and Bradley, though, is Bradley at least showed more ability to score than Holiday, who really seemed to struggle to do anything but defend on a consistent basis.

                              As for James, I think he's a fairly good prospect, but, again, there really no one available at 13 I'm really all that enamoured with. Maybe someone will drop, but most prospects seem either too flawed, or too limited in their potential. I don't see James as anything more than a role player, which is a good thing to have, but not when you're drafting in the lottery.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • #90
                                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                                Ya, Holiday is probably a better comparison. I was not the one who brought up Westbrook. I wasn't quite sure it was a valid comparison, as Westbrook did have more PG skills than Bradley does. The difference between Holiday and Bradley, though, is Bradley at least showed more ability to score than Holiday, who really seemed to struggle to do anything but defend on a consistent basis.

                                As for James, I think he's a fairly good prospect, but, again, there really no one available at 13 I'm really all that enamoured with. Maybe someone will drop, but most prospects seem either too flawed, or too limited in their potential. I don't see James as anything more than a role player, which is a good thing to have, but not when you're drafting in the lottery.
                                Holiday went out too early. I told everyone this last June. He should have stayed another year at UCLA. If he had stayed there for 2009-10 he probably would have been the teams #1 option on offense, given how bad they were this last season. He would have developed his all around game better with another year under Howland than by playing for for the 76ers in 2009-10.

                                James brings toughness and he can rebound and defend. The Raptors sorely and desperately need those three quality big time. That is why I like him as a Raptors pick. The fact that he is aggressive on offense scores and gets to the free throw line is icing on the cake.

                                As a 4 year player at Texas who has logged 4,000 minutes against some of the best competition in the NCAA he will most certainly be ready to step right in and contribute from the gitgo. People may say that at 22 he is old. But that thinking is only because the NBA now prefers to draft 19 and 20 year old one and done projects as opposed to guys that have 4 years of solid NCAA experience in a top notch program and has developed good fundamentals as a result.

                                CR_Reina of RealGM tweeted about James

                                Toughest guy of this class, Damion James, missing interview session because of busted lip. Needs stitches. 11:27 AM May 20th via web
                                http://twitter.com/CR_Reina
                                Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat May 22, 2010, 01:16 PM.
                                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                                Larger Photo of the avatar



                                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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