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Thread: Stein: Bosh Remains Houston's Top Target

  1. #21
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's left for Bosh in Houston in that scenario? No way the Raptors are getting Battier and Ariza. Bosh would want to go there to be surrounded by guys like that. I could see something like Ariza, Jeffries and Hill. In this scenario the Raptors aren't getting equal value, but they won't else where either. At least here they get a young gun who plays strong defense, an expiring contract and a prospect. Maybe they could squeeze a 1st rounder out of the Rockets as well? If it were this year's draft it could place them in a position to land Xavier Henry. Of course the Rockets would have to make the pick for the Raptors and then do the S&T on July 1st.
    I'd be happy with Ariza, Jeffries and Hill. I don't think the Raptors are going to get much more young talent than that anywhere else.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Aris's Avatar
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    Scola is a hard working proven player in the NBA and I think asking him to come off the bench and play second fiddle to Bosh is unfair. With a healthy Yao and Bosh there isn't much room for Scola so it would only make sence.

    Apparently who ever wants Bosh is going to have to absorb either Calderon or Turk and since Houston has to many shooters and not enough ditributors this could work in there favor.

    Bosh,Turkoglu, for Scola, Jefferies, Ariza or Battier

    Bosh, Calderon for Scola, Jefferies, Landry or Brooks

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'd be happy with Ariza, Jeffries and Hill. I don't think the Raptors are going to get much more young talent than that anywhere else.
    I think that would work money wise.

    Three solid bench guys
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    Why wouldn't Lebron come to Toronto for Bosh?

    Hell, the Raptors could even throw in Hedo
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  5. #25
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'd be happy with Ariza, Jeffries and Hill. I don't think the Raptors are going to get much more young talent than that anywhere else.
    One other good thing about this trade is that while Jeffries is overpaid his contract is expiring and even if the Raptors elected not to move his expiring deal at the 2011 trade deadline they would still have a player who can contribute off the bench for them that season and a potential player worth resigning.

    Quote rapper wrote: View Post
    Is it set in stone that bosh will do a sign and trade? HE COULD JUST WALK!!!!
    He could but a S&T offers him the most money and probably lands him on a team with a co-star and a nice group of compliments.

    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Scola is a hard working proven player in the NBA and I think asking him to come off the bench and play second fiddle to Bosh is unfair. With a healthy Yao and Bosh there isn't much room for Scola so it would only make sence.
    There are guys all over the league on Scola's level who are coming off the bench. Having Scola coming off the bench would be great depth for the Rockets.
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri May 14th, 2010 at 12:01 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Scola is a hard working proven player in the NBA and I think asking him to come off the bench and play second fiddle to Bosh is unfair. With a healthy Yao and Bosh there isn't much room for Scola so it would only make sence.

    Apparently who ever wants Bosh is going to have to absorb either Calderon or Turk and since Houston has to many shooters and not enough ditributors this could work in there favor.

    Bosh,Turkoglu, for Scola, Jefferies, Ariza or Battier

    Bosh, Calderon for Scola, Jefferies, Landry or Brooks
    Apparently you want Scola. Problem is, he's a free agent and would have to agree to sign with Toronto. Personally, I think he'll get interest from some contenders who could definitely use him.

    And if you go with Scola, Jeffries and Battier, you do realize the the only player the Raptors would be getting who would be under 30 would be Jeffries, who turns 29 next November. Are you under the impression the Raptors would be able to win immediately? Or are do you just want to make sure they just want to save them from finishing high in the lottery next year in favour of another mid first round pick?

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I think that would work money wise.

    Three solid bench guys
    Who on earth would you have starting ahead of Ariza? And Hill might very well start on the Raptors next season if this trade would happen.

  8. #28
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Who on earth would you have starting ahead of Ariza? And Hill might very well start on the Raptors next season if this trade would happen.
    Too funny
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie Aris's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    One other good thing about this trade is that while Jeffries is overpaid his contract is expiring and even if the Raptors elected not to move his expiring deal at the 2011 trade deadline they would still have a player who can contribute off the bench for them that season and a potential player worth resigning.



    He could but a S&T offers him the most money and probably lands him on a team with a co-star and a nice group of compliments.



    There are guys all over the league on Scola's level who are coming off the bench. Having Scola coming off the bench would be great depth for the Rockets.
    Your right. If Houston where able to retain Scola while getting Bosh it would give them great depth. However that doesn't make any sence for the Raptors. If Bosh leaves he takes his 24 pts and 10 rpg with him. If the best we can get back for Bosh are role players we are better off letting him walk, having a fire sale and rebuilding. Im not in favor of this and I believe that Colangelo will facilitate a trade that makes sence and will get back a player close to the talent of Scola. I think Bosh has around 30 million reasons whe he will work closely with Brian to make sure it works for both sides.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Rookie Aris's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Apparently you want Scola. Problem is, he's a free agent and would have to agree to sign with Toronto. Personally, I think he'll get interest from some contenders who could definitely use him.

    And if you go with Scola, Jeffries and Battier, you do realize the the only player the Raptors would be getting who would be under 30 would be Jeffries, who turns 29 next November. Are you under the impression the Raptors would be able to win immediately? Or are do you just want to make sure they just want to save them from finishing high in the lottery next year in favour of another mid first round pick?
    Houston also holds his bird rights to Scola and they can match any offer for him then use him in a sign and trade for Bosh. I don't care how old Jefferies and Battier are because they are expiring contracts that would clear 14mil in cap space that we can use to sign free agents TO HELP OUR TEAM WIN. Your right I don't want the Raptors to end up high in the lottery because that means another failed season. Are you implying that you would rather the Raptors have a terrible team, miss the playoffs just so they can be in the lottery next season? Also if we got Battier we would be moving Turk who is 31 and would also save us around 45mil over 4 years that we can use to sign free agents.
    Last edited by Aris; Fri May 14th, 2010 at 12:56 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Houston also holds his bird rights to Scola and they can match any offer for him then use him in a sign and trade for Bosh. I don't care how old Jefferies and Battier are because they are expiring contracts that would clear 14mil in cap space that we can use to sign free agents TO HELP OUR TEAM WIN. Your right I don't want the Raptors to end up high in the lottery because that means another failed season. Are you implying that you would rather the Raptors have a terrible team, miss the playoffs just so they can be in the lottery next season? Also if we got Battier we would be moving Turk who is 31 and would also save us around 45mil over 4 years that we can use to sign free agents.
    Yes, I realize that Houston holds Scola's bird rights, but he'd still have to want to sign with Toronto.

    And I hate to be the one to tell you this, but if Bosh leaves, next year IS a failed season. There's not all that much the Raptors brass can do to stop that. If it's a difference between 20 wins and 30 wins next season, I'd take 20 and a higher draft pick. If you're going to rebuild, then you might as well try and get the best young talent you can. Which is why you'd want to get as much young talent as you can for Bosh.

    And I'm not quite sure what you expect the Raptors to do with $14 million in cap space. Next season, the majority of teams are going to have cap room, and I'm guessing Toronto is going to be low on most player's list of teams they want to go. Unless you want to overpay, again. Although it didn't work out all that great with Turkoglu, did it?

    No, the smart thing is to try and get young players who can either be the future of the team, or be an asset that will increase in value (unlike guys over 30). That way you aren't starting completely from scratch.

  12. #32
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Yes, I realize that Houston holds Scola's bird rights, but he'd still have to want to sign with Toronto.

    And I hate to be the one to tell you this, but if Bosh leaves, next year IS a failed season. There's not all that much the Raptors brass can do to stop that. If it's a difference between 20 wins and 30 wins next season, I'd take 20 and a higher draft pick. If you're going to rebuild, then you might as well try and get the best young talent you can. Which is why you'd want to get as much young talent as you can for Bosh.

    And I'm not quite sure what you expect the Raptors to do with $14 million in cap space. Next season, the majority of teams are going to have cap room, and I'm guessing Toronto is going to be low on most player's list of teams they want to go. Unless you want to overpay, again. Although it didn't work out all that great with Turkoglu, did it?

    No, the smart thing is to try and get young players who can either be the future of the team, or be an asset that will increase in value (unlike guys over 30). That way you aren't starting completely from scratch.
    Your wrong, Scola doesn't have to want to sign with Toronto he would sign with Houston then Houston can trade him to whomever they want.

    It's your own opinion that the season is lost if Bosh leaves. I disagree with you, I think we can be very competitive without Bosh if Colangelo can bring back the right pieces in return and get rid of some of our dead weight (Turkoglu).

    First off Jefferies and Battiers contracts don't expire this summer so if we let them run out they would come off the books next summer when less teams will have cap space. Second of all expiring contracts can be used for more then just cap space, there are teams who's number 1 goal of this off season is to clear space and would be wiling part with good players for expiring contracts. So in answer to your question, no we don't have to wait to overpay players like Hedo. In the NBA money and cap space = options.

    Our glaring need is defense and hard working tough players. We have a very young team with Hedo being the only player over 30 signed for next year. So where in any of my posts did I say I want a bunch of guys over 30 or opposed to young talent? You have no clue what your talking about. Please don't reply to any more of my posts unless you read them and understand them because I am getting tired of having to educate you.

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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    It's your own opinion that the season is lost if Bosh leaves. I disagree with you, I think we can be very competitive without Bosh if Colangelo can bring back the right pieces in return and get rid of some of our dead weight (Turkoglu).
    Right...no problems there.

    All BC has to do is replace the production of our leading scorer and rebounder via sign and trade AND get rid of one of the worst contracts in the league.

    Happens all the time...

  14. #34
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    Quote TM Williamson wrote: View Post
    Right...no problems there.

    All BC has to do is replace the production of our leading scorer and rebounder via sign and trade AND get rid of one of the worst contracts in the league.

    Happens all the time...
    Did i say there was no problems with losing Bosh, No I didn't

    Did i say we are going to win a title without him next year, No I didn't

    Did I say we can replace his production in one move, absolutely not

    All I said was we can still be competitive if BC can make the right moves.Instead of picking things out of peoples conversations to discriminate why not try posting something worth talking about.

  15. #35
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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Your right. If Houston where able to retain Scola while getting Bosh it would give them great depth. However that doesn't make any sence for the Raptors. If Bosh leaves he takes his 24 pts and 10 rpg with him. If the best we can get back for Bosh are role players we are better off letting him walk, having a fire sale and rebuilding. Im not in favor of this and I believe that Colangelo will facilitate a trade that makes sence and will get back a player close to the talent of Scola. I think Bosh has around 30 million reasons whe he will work closely with Brian to make sure it works for both sides.
    I think it makes total sense to want Ariza or Hill before Scola. Is Scola going to be part of a long term core group like Ariza or Hill would? I don't think so. If they trade Bosh they better darn well be thinking about their long term future and not about making the playoffs again as soon as possible. They'll be lucky to get 60 cents on the dollar and so those pieces they get back better have a great deal of growth potential. I like Scola but I am not overwhelmed with the idea of Bargnani, Scola and Turkoglu manning the interior defense for the next three or four seasons.

  16. #36
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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Your wrong, Scola doesn't have to want to sign with Toronto he would sign with Houston then Houston can trade him to whomever they want.

    It's your own opinion that the season is lost if Bosh leaves. I disagree with you, I think we can be very competitive without Bosh if Colangelo can bring back the right pieces in return and get rid of some of our dead weight (Turkoglu).

    First off Jefferies and Battiers contracts don't expire this summer so if we let them run out they would come off the books next summer when less teams will have cap space. Second of all expiring contracts can be used for more then just cap space, there are teams who's number 1 goal of this off season is to clear space and would be wiling part with good players for expiring contracts. So in answer to your question, no we don't have to wait to overpay players like Hedo. In the NBA money and cap space = options.

    Our glaring need is defense and hard working tough players. We have a very young team with Hedo being the only player over 30 signed for next year. So where in any of my posts did I say I want a bunch of guys over 30 or opposed to young talent? You have no clue what your talking about. Please don't reply to any more of my posts unless you read them and understand them because I am getting tired of having to educate you.
    Actually, I'm not wrong. Technically, Scola signs with Houston, but in order to be traded immediately, it would have to be part of a sign and trade, and Scola would have to agree to it. Otherwise they can't trade him for three months. You need to brush up on the basics of the CBA.

    You think that without Bosh, the team will still be competitive? They weren't WITH him, so the chances of them being competitive without him are slim to none. Not without some massive player movement.

    And you have to take a look at just how many teams are set to be under the cap next summer. It's more than you think. At this point, only two teams in the entire league are set to be over the cap next summer. Obviously that will change, but the point is that next summer there are going to be a whole lot of teams under the cap. Probably more than this summer.

    And cap space only work if you are a desired destination. Toronto had cap space last summer and had their top two choices turn them down. And that's that we know of. Minnesota has cap room this summer, but no one is talking about going there. There's a reason for that.

    You asked where you said you want players over 30. Well, in the post where you said you'd take Scola, Battier and Jeffries.

    Believe, I do know what I am talking about. You seem to be the one who doesn't even understand the basics of the sign-and-trade. Before you try to insult someone, make sure that you know what you're talking about, otherwise you just look foolish.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    If Bosh walks the Raptors will more than 20 or even 30 games if they sign Big Dawg.

    Without Bosh this season they were 5 - 0 against sub .500 teams.

    There is no reason to think if the Raptors sign Big Dawg that even without Bosh the rest of the guys won't be better than last season.

    If Bosh walks and the rest of the core of the team remains unchanged from this season the Raptors will win at least 35 and maybe 40 - 45 games next season.

    Call me crazy. Fair enough but Mo_sales was so sure that the Cavs would get into the finals and I said not very likely.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie TM Williamson's Avatar
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    Quote Aris wrote: View Post
    Did i say there was no problems with losing Bosh, No I didn't

    Did i say we are going to win a title without him next year, No I didn't

    Did I say we can replace his production in one move, absolutely not

    All I said was we can still be competitive if BC can make the right moves.Instead of picking things out of peoples conversations to discriminate why not try posting something worth talking about.
    You said we "could be very competitive without Bosh".

    This year, with Bosh, we were not "very competitive". Not even close.

    Clearly then, you are somehow expecting this team to become better without Chris Bosh. I was simply pointing out that this is not likely to happen.

    And you're talking about what I posted, so clearly you found it worth talking about.

    I would write more, but Tim W. just summed everything up beautifully.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Rookie Aris's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think it makes total sense to want Ariza or Hill before Scola. Is Scola going to be part of a long term core group like Ariza or Hill would? I don't think so. If they trade Bosh they better darn well be thinking about their long term future and not about making the playoffs again as soon as possible. They'll be lucky to get 60 cents on the dollar and so those pieces they get back better have a great deal of growth potential. I like Scola but I am not overwhelmed with the idea of Bargnani, Scola and Turkoglu manning the interior defense for the next three or four seasons.
    Your right you typically only get 60 cents on the dollar with a sign and trade, however Bosh one of the best big men in the NBA and his value is at it's peak. There is a lot of interest for a big with that much talent. I like Hill and Ariza but I believe we can get more for Bosh. I think Houston would give up Scola, Ariza and Hill to get Bosh. Houston keeps their main core players and adds Bosh which gives them a starting line up of Yao, Bosh, Battier, Martin and Brooks.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Aris's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Actually, I'm not wrong. Technically, Scola signs with Houston, but in order to be traded immediately, it would have to be part of a sign and trade, and Scola would have to agree to it. Otherwise they can't trade him for three months. You need to brush up on the basics of the CBA.

    You think that without Bosh, the team will still be competitive? They weren't WITH him, so the chances of them being competitive without him are slim to none. Not without some massive player movement.

    And you have to take a look at just how many teams are set to be under the cap next summer. It's more than you think. At this point, only two teams in the entire league are set to be over the cap next summer. Obviously that will change, but the point is that next summer there are going to be a whole lot of teams under the cap. Probably more than this summer.

    And cap space only work if you are a desired destination. Toronto had cap space last summer and had their top two choices turn them down. And that's that we know of. Minnesota has cap room this summer, but no one is talking about going there. There's a reason for that.

    You asked where you said you want players over 30. Well, in the post where you said you'd take Scola, Battier and Jeffries.

    Believe, I do know what I am talking about. You seem to be the one who doesn't even understand the basics of the sign-and-trade. Before you try to insult someone, make sure that you know what you're talking about, otherwise you just look foolish.

    When i said you don't know what your talking about i wasn't referring to your knowledge of the CBA I was talking about you accusations of my opinions. Either you didn't understand what I was talking about or you did and you where just being willfully ignorant about it. You have been taking my posts out of context and turning them around to make it seem that my opinion is something else.

    I suggested we trade Bosh and Turk for Scola, Battier OR Ariza and Jefferies giving us a starting good PF a good young player in Ariza and the flexibility of an expiring contract and getting rid of Turk who is 31 and his bad contract. Yet you turn it around and say I want to trade Bosh for 3 guys in there 30s yet leave out that we could get Ariza, get rid of Turk and trade jefferiers expiring contract for assets. I just think we can get more then what was being discussed, Bosh for Ariza and Hill. I would rather Ariza over Battier but i'm not sure Houston would give up Ariza , Scola and take on Turks contract.

    Cap space only becomes that if you let contracts expire, you have the option of trading expiring contracts for assets to teams who are looking to get under the cap.

    Bottom line is i'm a Raptors fan and have been for 15 years all I want is to see this team succeed. I would rather not trade Bosh however if it happens I would like the Raptors to get back as much as possible for him. I wasn't looking to insult you I was just insulted by your interpretation of my opinion.

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