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Thread: Just Don't Pick Bargnani Version 2.0

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Default Just Don't Pick Bargnani Version 2.0

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...tiejunas-1300/

    - Donatas is 7ft like Bargnani

    - He is slated to be picked in the early to late teens.

    - He is European who plays on Benetton Treviso

    - He is often compared to Bargnani.

    You just know Maurizio Gherardini will be all over that at the round table discussion about picking this guy up! he will probably say something like

    "yes yes he is very good you will see, I called my replacement in Treviso and he said he is a very good player with great potential, pick up him Colangelo you can trust me on this one,,, now can we order Calzones?! "

    I swear if they continue with this Euro push, I will stop watching the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    the only europeans i ever wanted were the ones on the spurs and the only one they have is ginobili.

    delfino and ilyasova as well as some other players around the league are good role players and i think bargnani if he breaks out and realizes that he is 7ft tall and excess of 260lbs.

    he'll be real good. you know who bargani could learn alot from... himself, that is the nba live 10 version of himself the dude is a double double machine, he shoots lights out and he dunks the ball and attacks the rim aggresively most of the time.

    which really is what bargnani can and should be doing but he's not for some reason, i just can't figure it out.

    why the hell do the spurs draft so good, the suns draft decent as well?somebody please explain.
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    So, does that mean that if Gherardini was from Los Angeles, he'd automatically pick a player from California? I really don't think people give enough credit to these guys. Would you automatically pick a Canadian even if he was completely wrong for the team? No. You pick the best player for the team. If Gherardini would really be that swayed because a player played for his old club, that he would never have gotten to where he is.

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    the only europeans i ever wanted were the ones on the spurs and the only one they have is ginobili.

    delfino and ilyasova as well as some other players around the league are good role players and i think bargnani if he breaks out and realizes that he is 7ft tall and excess of 260lbs.
    So, apparently Tony Parker either isn't European, or isn't on the Spurs. And you obviously don't want Pau Gasol, or Dirk, or Nene, or Kirilenko, or Biedrins, or Varajao, or Pietrus. I'd take them.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I think this kid won't be high on the board. They don't need another 7 footer who doesn't rebound well and can't post up. They're not going to pick him. I'll lay down money on this one.

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    the only europeans i ever wanted were the ones on the spurs and the only one they have is ginobili.
    isn't ginobili from argentina or somewhere in south america??

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    Maybe they can trade up to the number 1 pick and take him with it , just so history repeats itself.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    So, apparently Tony Parker either isn't European, or isn't on the Spurs. And you obviously don't want Pau Gasol, or Dirk, or Nene, or Kirilenko, or Biedrins, or Varajao, or Pietrus. I'd take them.
    This guy is already pretty good and he is only going to get better



    and so is this guy

    Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu May 13th, 2010 at 11:54 PM.
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote bodmon wrote: View Post
    isn't ginobili from argentina or somewhere in south america??
    Yeah. So is Delfino, Noc, Oberto, Scola and Herrmann.

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    Quote bodmon wrote: View Post
    isn't ginobili from argentina or somewhere in south america??
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah. So is Delfino, Noc, Oberto, Scola and Herrmann.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    This guy is already pretty good and he is only going to get better



    and so is this guy

    Ya, I knew I was forgetting a few. Forgot Scola, too.

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    I think Bargnani was touted as more athletic and a better shot blocker than Motiejunas is projected at now. His jump shot is also not as developed as Andrea's was, but he might have a better post game. I see him as more of a Nenad Krstic (with better ball skills).

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    So, does that mean that if Gherardini was from Los Angeles, he'd automatically pick a player from California? .
    No, he would pick a player from any of the States because that's what he knows and therefore that's his preference. Gheradini was a GM in an Italian team that competed in the euroleague therefore that's what he knows and that is his preference. This preference is why we have so many europeans on the team this season and over the past 4 seasons.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Would you automatically pick a Canadian even if he was completely wrong for the team? No. You pick the best player for the team. .
    No you don't have the luxery to pick the best player for the team, you have 29 other teams competing and when you are not a hot destination for top talent American players, you sometimes need to go to the euro route. However this is only applied when you speak free agency, through drafts and trades you can get alot better players that on average happen to be Americans and happened to play a different style of basketball then the Europeans.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If Gherardini would really be that swayed because a player played for his old club, that he would never have gotten to where he is.
    Well then how do you explain drafting Bargnani?! This was a pivotal draft moment and having the luxery of having the first overall pick, the Raptors picked a player that no other team in the NBA would have the guts picking him first overall if they were in their position. Colangelo was swayed by Gheradini to pick Bargnani, a player that he knew very well while not having a clue about other college players because of his background.

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    No, he would pick a player from any of the States because that's what he knows and therefore that's his preference. Gheradini was a GM in an Italian team that competed in the euroleague therefore that's what he knows and that is his preference. This preference is why we have so many europeans on the team this season and over the past 4 seasons.
    Just because that's what he knows, doesn't necessarily mean that he'd automatically chose a European player over an American who might be better suited. Knowing something well, and having a preference for it are two different things. The Raptors have brought 4 players over from Europe, and Ukic was drafted by the previous GM. Gheradini being the Assistant GM didn't cause the Raptors to grab Turkoglu. They grabbed Turkoglu because Neither Ariza nor Marion wanted to play in Toronto.

    Besides, why didn't the Raptors pick the one player they could have last year with European experience: Brandon Jennings?

    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    No you don't have the luxery to pick the best player for the team, you have 29 other teams competing and when you are not a hot destination for top talent American players, you sometimes need to go to the euro route. However this is only applied when you speak free agency, through drafts and trades you can get alot better players that on average happen to be Americans and happened to play a different style of basketball then the Europeans.
    Actually, in the draft, you do have the luxury of picking the best player. You choose them not the other way around. So, in other words, the Raptors don't have to go after a European player. They can draft anyone, as they did last year when they drafted DeRozan.

    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Well then how do you explain drafting Bargnani?! This was a pivotal draft moment and having the luxery of having the first overall pick, the Raptors picked a player that no other team in the NBA would have the guts picking him first overall if they were in their position. Colangelo was swayed by Gheradini to pick Bargnani, a player that he knew very well while not having a clue about other college players because of his background.
    Why on earth do you not think that Colangelo wanted to draft Bargnani, as well? You seem to think it was only Gheradini, and without him, the Raptors wouldn't have picked Bargnani. Besides, just because they picked Bargnani, doesn't necessarily mean they will pick a European every time they can. That's ridiculous. Gheradini is a smart basketball mind who has been in North America for four years. There is absolutely no reason to think that Gheradini will automatically select a European if given the chance. By now, Gheradini knows the US college players far better than either you or I. If he picks what he knows, he's going to end up picking the best player available, no matter where he is from.

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    Besides, if GMs only pick what they know, how on earth did so many European players get in the league when there's not one European GM??

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    Expressions like this "I swear if they continue with this Euro push, I will stop watching the Raptors. " illustrate why Colangelo is a visionary GM. Most people understand that the US is the dominant force in Basketball, and so thus in some sort of crypto-racist assumption, think that means that "Americans" themselves are somehow better than "Euros" (which includes everywhere that is not the US). That is, of course, nonsense, basketball is simply culturally more developed in the US. There are two facts to consider a) Toronto is not in the US, and will always be at a disadvantage with regard to to US players, b) Basketball is flourishing as a world sport, and the discrepancy is shrinking. The "Euro" (i.e. International) model has never been done before, and never in Toronto. It is a long term vision. And the right one for Toronto even if the short-term success (which hasn't been that bad actually) has not satisfied fans yer, who in their lack of vision can only compare Toronto to US teams. International basketball will keep getting better, and if Toronto can continue to develop as a prime destination for International talent, this will eventually pay dividends, and once it does Toronto can be a dynasty in a new basketball era. I would be far more logical to stop following the team if they do drop the Euro "experiment" after all, if you want to follow the Lakers, just follow the Lakers, Toronto can not be the Lakers, and they should not try. I'm 100% behind BC and the concept in an International player oriented squad in Toronto, a team like the Raptors (the only non-US team in the NBA) has to chart it's own course, even if it takes longer, even if there are mis-steps and set-backs both the goal and potential playoff are more ambitious and more intriguing than a second rate imitation of how US teams do it. The World is bigger than the USA. Toronto can be the world's NBA team. And that, to me, is the right vision for both the team and the city.

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    Excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject but maybe because I grew up in Buffalo and have always thought of Toronto as one of the great cosmopolitan cities in North America I just don't understand why a NBA player would not want to play for the Raptors because they are based in Toronto or Canada.

    Yes I heard the tax argument but the taxes in Canada can't be much if any hire than they are in New York where the tax rate is over 60% including state taxes. As far as I know Canada has a tax treaty with the U.S. that eliminates double taxation for Americans that play in Canada.

    Could someone help me out on this please and post a link that documents stories of American NBA players not wanting to play in Toronto because it is Canada. Stories about the weather don't count.

    Thanks everyone in advance for your help in this matter.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject but maybe because I grew up in Buffalo and have always thought of Toronto as one of the great cosmopolitan cities in North America I just don't understand why a NBA player would not want to play for the Raptors because they are based in Toronto or Canada.

    Yes I heard the tax argument but the taxes in Canada can't be much if any hire than they are in New York where the tax rate is over 60% including state taxes. As far as I know Canada has a tax treaty with the U.S. that eliminates double taxation for Americans that play in Canada.

    Could someone help me out on this please and post a link that documents stories of American NBA players not wanting to play in Toronto because it is Canada. Stories about the weather don't count.

    Thanks everyone in advance for your help in this matter.
    I'm not going to post a link, and I'm going to generalize wildly, but you'll get the point.

    I think more than anything, it's just the general xenophobic nature of young Americans. They fear something that is different from what they know, and Toronto and Canada are the great unknowns of the NBA landscape to many players. They perceive the hassles associated with playing in Canada as being more significant than they actually are, which prevents some from coming. Furthermore, each player has different personal issues that may make them feel uncomfortable in Canada. T-Mac complained about not having ESPN, Antonio Davis said he wanted his children to go through the American education system, the list goes on and on. There is no all encompassing good reason that American guys don't want to come here...they often just don't.

    Toronto can not be the Lakers, and they should not try.
    Why wouldn't they try? The Lakers are a successful basketball team. Toronto is not. If we're going to be obsessed with succeeding in our own way, a way that has never worked in the NBA before, then there simply isn't a great chance we're going to be successful. The NBA has a formula for success, and it involves defense and rebounding. European basketball systems, and European players, traditionally do not emphasize these aspects of the game (again, I'm generalizing, but it is true).

    If you want to commit to a long term vision for which there is no precedent of success, then go ahead. I'd rather commit to a vision that's based around doing what has been historically proven to win basketball games, not hording players based on their nationality.

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    Quote Quirk wrote: View Post
    Expressions like this "I swear if they continue with this Euro push, I will stop watching the Raptors. " illustrate why Colangelo is a visionary GM. Most people understand that the US is the dominant force in Basketball, and so thus in some sort of crypto-racist assumption, think that means that "Americans" themselves are somehow better than "Euros" (which includes everywhere that is not the US). That is, of course, nonsense, basketball is simply culturally more developed in the US. There are two facts to consider a) Toronto is not in the US, and will always be at a disadvantage with regard to to US players, b) Basketball is flourishing as a world sport, and the discrepancy is shrinking. The "Euro" (i.e. International) model has never been done before, and never in Toronto. It is a long term vision. And the right one for Toronto even if the short-term success (which hasn't been that bad actually) has not satisfied fans yer, who in their lack of vision can only compare Toronto to US teams. International basketball will keep getting better, and if Toronto can continue to develop as a prime destination for International talent, this will eventually pay dividends, and once it does Toronto can be a dynasty in a new basketball era. I would be far more logical to stop following the team if they do drop the Euro "experiment" after all, if you want to follow the Lakers, just follow the Lakers, Toronto can not be the Lakers, and they should not try. I'm 100% behind BC and the concept in an International player oriented squad in Toronto, a team like the Raptors (the only non-US team in the NBA) has to chart it's own course, even if it takes longer, even if there are mis-steps and set-backs both the goal and potential playoff are more ambitious and more intriguing than a second rate imitation of how US teams do it. The World is bigger than the USA. Toronto can be the world's NBA team. And that, to me, is the right vision for both the team and the city.
    Great post. I think the main problem with the Raptors is that they've got the wrong European players, not that getting European players is wrong. If they were a US-based team, they could have gotten the wrong American players and ended up with the same problem.

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