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Arse Says Offer Johnson No More Than $3.5 Million

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  • #31
    Ripp wrote: View Post
    Amir is an UFA...Raps are competing on the open market against all other teams.

    Comparing Reggie Evans to Amir is ridiculous. If you want, compare him to Amare minus the faceup game...that would be a more accurate comparison.
    That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on these young forums. Adding "minus a faceup game" or not. Just because he ran a few PnRs with Jose doesn't make him a PnR player. Amir is a garbage-man/hustler much like Reggie Evans, he is not close to being as polished as Amare to warrant any sort of comparison. Maybe their heights are similar, but that's about it.

    There's a reason Johnson ate into Evans' minutes and it has to do with them providing the same energy/hustle off the bench. Johnson happens to be a better finisher around the rim, plays within his limited skill-set and his height and lateral quicks makes him a better defender than Reggie.

    I honestly don't even think Reggie is a bad fit for the team, he's not the defender he was pre-injury two or three years ago, but he can still be a good guy to bring in off the bench. However, nobody needs two guys to play the JYD role.

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    • #32
      ^--- What are you talking about? Check out his TS%, and compare to Amare. Consider how Triano used Amir to create open shots for Bargnani against Detroit (google his comments from that game, if you like.)

      Here are their shot distributions, Amir vs. Amare, from Hoopdata:

      http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...NSi1laWc&hl=en


      Amir is 73.1% at the rim, Amare 67%. 65% of Amir's attempts are at the rim, 48% for Amare. 66.5% assist rate for Amir, 62.6% for Amare. The key difference is that Amare takes 28% of his shots at 16-23 foot jumpers, Amir only does 10%....

      His PnR game is absolutely deadly, and to think he is only a "hustle" big is foolish. 73.1% at the rim means you should run PnR with him all day...

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      • #33
        Ripp wrote: View Post
        ^--- What are you talking about? Check out his TS%, and compare to Amare. Consider how Triano used Amir to create open shots for Bargnani against Detroit (google his comments from that game, if you like.)

        Here are their shot distributions, Amir vs. Amare, from Hoopdata:

        http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...NSi1laWc&hl=en


        Amir is 73.1% at the rim, Amare 67%. 65% of Amir's attempts are at the rim, 48% for Amare. 66.5% assist rate for Amir, 62.6% for Amare. The key difference is that Amare takes 28% of his shots at 16-23 foot jumpers, Amir only does 10%....

        His PnR game is absolutely deadly, and to think he is only a "hustle" big is foolish. 73.1% at the rim means you should run PnR with him all day...
        +1

        Comment: Its the old story. People tend to see someone as they first saw him. This is certainly true of how I see Big Dawg. When I first saw him play he was a scorer who had an uncanny knack for getting the ball to fall through the net an an exceptionally high rate from anywhere up to 5 - 10 feet from the basket.

        Now that he is finally getting a chance on offense it has become very clear that the NBA game is slowing down for him on offense and as he gets bigger and stronger his scoring will continue to accelerate especially if he continues to play for Triano, who just luvs Big Dawgs game. It is now just a matter of Big Dawg keeping his fouls under control. That is the only thing standing in his way from becoming a 18 or better point per game scorer.
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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        • #34
          Arsenalist: I dunno why you dislike the guy so much. But you've got to at least keep a more open mind. Or at least, pay attention to the data. Amir does a lot of nice things on the offensive end...

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          • #35
            Of course Amir shoots a better percentage in the paint than Amare though. Teams gear their defenses around stopping Amare at the rim because the number one option for the Suns is Amare going to the basket. Amir is generally the 4th or 5th option when he's on the floor, so when he gets the ball in the paint, he's going to face a lot less resistance than Stoudemire.

            As usage goes up, efficiency tends to go down. When you are the 4th or 5th offensive option on the floor, you're going to get a lot more open looks than when you're the 1st. Chris Andersen had a better true shooting % than Amare too, but it doesn't mean he's a comparable player.

            This isn't hate for Amir. I love the guy and hope the Raptors bring him back. But Raptors fans have a history of expecting too much from players who are incapable of fulfilling those expectations. Expecting Amir Johnson to ever be a consistent scoring option in the NBA is a perfect example of that. He doesn't have post moves, he doesn't have a jump shot, and he doesn't have a face up game. He catches and he finishes. There aren't a lot of guys with that skill set consistently putting up big scoring numbers. Can he improve on his current scoring numbers? Sure. But to be tossing out numbers like 18 ppg and Stoudemire comparisons is unfair to him, because he's simply not that kind of player.

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            • #36
              Who brought up 18ppg? And who cares that he is a 4th or 5th option? A 4th or 5th option who can create offense (by rolling to the rim) and defend is a BARGAIN ar 4 or 5 mil a year.

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              • #37
                Ripp wrote: View Post
                Who brought up 18ppg? And who cares that he is a 4th or 5th option? A 4th or 5th option who can create offense (by rolling to the rim) and defend is a BARGAIN ar 4 or 5 mil a year.
                Buddahfan threw out the 18 ppg number, and said getting his fouling under control was the only thing preventing him from reaching it.

                The 4th or 5th option was in response to your points about Amir having a better percentage up close than Amare. Other teams gear their defenses towards stopping Amare at the rim, and thus, his shots around the rim are likely of a higher degree of difficulty than Amir's. If Amir were the number one option on the floor (hypothetically), he would face stiffer defense around the rim, which would make it more difficult to do his favorite thing, catch and dunk. That's why Stoudemire developed a jumper and a face up game, because catching and dunking gets a lot more difficult when you're the other teams focal point.

                So, if they were to run the PnR with him "all day", as you suggested, that true shooting percentage would fall, quite possibly significantly. Defenses would adjust, and I'm not sure Amir would be able to adjust with them given his limited skill set.

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                • #38
                  Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                  That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on these young forums. Adding "minus a faceup game" or not. Just because he ran a few PnRs with Jose doesn't make him a PnR player. Amir is a garbage-man/hustler much like Reggie Evans, he is not close to being as polished as Amare to warrant any sort of comparison. Maybe their heights are similar, but that's about it.

                  There's a reason Johnson ate into Evans' minutes and it has to do with them providing the same energy/hustle off the bench. Johnson happens to be a better finisher around the rim, plays within his limited skill-set and his height and lateral quicks makes him a better defender than Reggie.

                  I honestly don't even think Reggie is a bad fit for the team, he's not the defender he was pre-injury two or three years ago, but he can still be a good guy to bring in off the bench. However, nobody needs two guys to play the JYD role.
                  The master has spoken! hahahaha

                  Im not being a kiss-ass here but im kinda on Arse's side here, and all the other Johnson-haters! hahahaha kidding. I really, really love Amir's game. Man, he gave the Raps life when they were getting their stomach's kicked in. He provided spark off the bench and his hustle plays are just admirable. He played his heart out most games and looked like he didnt flinch when asked to do the dirty work, and always did what was asked of him, plus 200%.

                  Couple of factors tho, it was a contract year for him. Im not going to say he was only doing it to get a bigger contract the following year, but it does sometimes tend to seep into a player's sub-conscious. And at the same time, fighting for minutes with Evans. Hopefully if he does get signed to a contract, he wont pull a "Jamario Moon" and get comfortable with a so-so playing attitude.

                  I think comparing him to Amare is a little bit over the top. Im sure if he heard that, he'd be jumping on his bed thinking people thinks of his play as that of the same caliber as amare. i mean, im pretty sure even him would be surprised of this comparison. He doesnt have that "oommpfff" that amare has (whatever that means, hahaha). amare has this raw power that allows him to take contact and still finish on the rim. he has the footwork to get away from double teams and he knows what to do with the ball either face up or back to the basket. Amir, ive seen fumble a couple of plays when faced with an aggressive defender and he certainly cant post up the likes of duncan, dhow or boozer. Again i like amir, his hardwork is incomparable, but he doesnt have the "it" factor that amare has.
                  Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Wed May 19, 2010, 02:03 PM.

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                  • #39
                    TM Williamson wrote: View Post
                    Buddahfan threw out the 18 ppg number, and said getting his fouling under control was the only thing preventing him from reaching it.

                    The 4th or 5th option was in response to your points about Amir having a better percentage up close than Amare. Other teams gear their defenses towards stopping Amare at the rim, and thus, his shots around the rim are likely of a higher degree of difficulty than Amir's. If Amir were the number one option on the floor (hypothetically), he would face stiffer defense around the rim, which would make it more difficult to do his favorite thing, catch and dunk. That's why Stoudemire developed a jumper and a face up game, because catching and dunking gets a lot more difficult when you're the other teams focal point.

                    So, if they were to run the PnR with him "all day", as you suggested, that true shooting percentage would fall, quite possibly significantly. Defenses would adjust, and I'm not sure Amir would be able to adjust with them given his limited skill set.
                    Hey Admins, why dont we put TM and Buddha in the RR park!!!!! hahaha

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                    • #40
                      Contract year is irrelevant...he has posted similar numbers in previous years

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