Air Canada vs. CB4

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

These two would probably end up being the most hated ex-Raptor players of all time (Vince, we already hate, CB, we soon will, trust me!)

One of the threads got me thinking, who's best or worst between Vince and Bosh? In every single aspect?

Before, i really hated Vince coz of the way he left Toronto, i bought into the whole crybaby, always injured, no-dunking sales pitch that the media put out there. And now CB4, with all his tweeting, cant-decide-yet BS, hanging out at lakers games crap, it really got me thinking, should we hate these two equally? Is CB4 worse and Vince's departure is actually justified?? Ooooooohhhh. I hear WTFs all over the place!

The main thing that i realized was with CB, the Raps tried to give him everything. Signed him to a max extension, got players around him that would make him better and the team better and put in coaches and management that he liked. We drafted an athletic wing to compliment his style, we got a PG that suited his game and players that were close to him. Did the raps do that with Vince? they surrounded him with experienced yet old players, drafted a center named Araujo and rumor had it that he didnt want Bosh drafted because he wanted Iggy but they still drafted Bosh.

So which one is more justified? Vince or Bosh's departure? Who's worst of the two?

[insight_tor]

I guess it all depends on what terms CB4 will eventually leave. By far, CB4 was more professional and he didn't behave as silly as VC. It was too bad that CB4 got injured, but I can't say he did all he could to decrease his value and hurt Raptors chances to get something useful back as Vince did. CB4 is a FA and if he leaves, is his right to do so. VC just signed a max contract while forcing Raptors GM to sign few other bad contracts and then he just quit while still under contract.

[TM Williamson]

Bosh is leaving as a free agent after the Raptors continually failed to put the proper talent around him to win. Could he have been better himself? Absolutely. Could he have handled the situation better without the stupid tweeting and whatnot? Without a doubt. But I still find it hard to begrudge him for wanting to go elsewhere. With the way this roster looks right now, I would probably do the same.

Vince signed an extension, decided he wanted to be traded, and then played like shit when they didn't trade him, which lowered his value for when he eventually did get moved. Vince Carter is a loathsome figure who set this franchise back significantly with the way he left town. We're going to get a better return on a sign and trade for Bosh than we got on a straight up trade for Vince when he was essentially in his prime, and that is completely ridiculous. Say what you want about him, (and there are plenty of legit criticisms) but Chris Bosh never screwed this team the way Vince did.

[da_goose09]

CB shouldn't be hated.. not even close.

He did nothing but give his all for this franchise; on and off the court. I know some people won't see it that way, but it's true!

They put players around him to make him better? You mean they tried to do that? 7 years in Toronto and the only all-star he's ever played with was Vince!!

Drafted an athletic wing? Yea.. LAST YEAR! DD was a rookie; cut him some slack.. it's not like he was expected to be Lebron or even a top pick? He was drafted because of his potential, not ability to step in right away and contribute.

You put "hanging out at Lakers game" a reason to hate him? He's a basketball player, who wanted to watch some basketball.. talk about over-reaction!

and FYI, Iggy was drafted in 2004.. a year after Bosh..

[Mack North]

These two would probably end up being the most hated ex-Raptor players of all time (Vince, we already hate, CB, we soon will, trust me!)

One of the threads got me thinking, who's best or worst between Vince and Bosh? In every single aspect?

Before, i really hated Vince coz of the way he left Toronto, i bought into the whole crybaby, always injured, no-dunking sales pitch that the media put out there. And now CB4, with all his tweeting, cant-decide-yet BS, hanging out at lakers games crap, it really got me thinking, should we hate these two equally? Is CB4 worse and Vince's departure is actually justified?? Ooooooohhhh. I hear WTFs all over the place!

The two are not even comparable in my opinion. Bosh is a FA whom we knew was going to test the FA waters for the past two years, so him visiting any potential teams and cities is no surprise. Sure the tweeting is a bit annoying, but he still hasn't said anything definitive about leaving.

Vince signed his extension, got the guys he wanted re-signed as well, and was a whiny little bitch who demanded a trade from a situation he essentially created in the first place. Publicly demanding a trade and leaving as an unrestricted free agent are light years apart in terms of screwing a team over.

And what do you mean by "media sales pitch" in the Wince situation? That wasn't what the media created, he did that all by himself.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Wow, so much angst! hahaha Just the way I planned it!

VC was indeed a dick for signing that extension and then bailing out, but just goes to show two things, one, he wasnt in it for the money, otherwise, he wouldve just played out his contract as the top guy in a losing team. Second, hm signing that extension probably came with a promise from management that they were going to make the team better for him to advanced to the conference finals and eventually make it to the finals. Then they draft Araujo. You are all right by chastising him for the way he handled the situation, he shouldve asked for a trade the proper way.

Me being a loyal person (I only write at RR now, forget Doug Smith, hahahaha) Im will be irked if CB to does move to another team. The Raps are willing to give him the max contract and try to get pieces around him. 7 seasons in the league and still winless? Michael Jordan didnt win a championship till his 7th season in the league. Bosh is no Jordan.

Yes, 100% agree that Bosh didnt screw the Raps. But while he was padding his stats, none of the other players around him were consistently putting up numbers as he was.

Um, i think Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion were past all-stars.

Hanging out at the Lakers game and tweeting. I forgot to mention the tweeting part.

Oh yeah, my bad. Iggy was supposed to be drafted instead of Araujo. Now im blaming Vince because we couldve gotten Wade instead of Bosh had we not had Vince.

Nah, the media had a lot to do with Vince's situation. Might not have started or ended it, but definitely aggravated it.

I hope Bosh will suddenly call a presscon one day and say, "Gotcha" i was just tweeting all that crap to get you guys to think i was leaving but i really wasnt gonna! Otherwise, all he did was just a subtle way of pulling a "VC" on us all.

[Raptomist]

There's not much I can add that hasn't been said above. There is no comparison. Whatever you think of Bosh's talents or results, you can't deny his effort. He's never quit on this team. On July 1st he'll have fulfilled his contractual obligations to the Toronto Raptors. He has every right to move on if that's his choice - and that shouldn't be viewed as a slap to the face of the city, the franchise, or its fans - and definitely not worthy of boos when he plays at the ACC.

Carter's departure was the complete opposite in every sense. I don't begrudge him for wanting out of a lousy situation, but do it with class. And as for what the Raptors gave him, Carter pushed for signing those old guys - notably Olajuwon - that put the Raptors in a salary bind for years. And why would he want them to draft Iggy since they play the same positions? Its been said that he didn't want them to draft Bosh because "GM" Carter wanted to trade the pick for an experienced player.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

There's not much I can add that hasn't been said above. There is no comparison. Whatever you think of Bosh's talents or results, you can't deny his effort. He's never quit on this team. On July 1st he'll have fulfilled his contractual obligations to the Toronto Raptors. He has every right to move on if that's his choice - and that shouldn't be viewed as a slap to the face of the city, the franchise, or its fans - and definitely not worthy of boos when he plays at the ACC.

Carter's departure was the complete opposite in every sense. I don't begrudge him for wanting out of a lousy situation, but do it with class. And as for what the Raptors gave him, Carter pushed for signing those old guys - notably Olajuwon - that put the Raptors in a salary bind for years. And why would he want them to draft Iggy since they play the same positions? Its been said that he didn't want them to draft Bosh because "GM" Carter wanted to trade the pick for an experienced player.

Wow, i didnt know he pushed to sign Akeem, now i hate him even more! hahaha

[Mack North]

Tbihis: LeBron James is likely set to walk away from a championship caliber team, he's been in the league 7 years and hasn't won squat either in terms of rings. Is he wrong for doing this? Hell no. He played out his contract and did it with pride and gave his all, which turned out to not be enough.

CB4 is in the same boat, minus the MVP's and playoff success. But if they both choose a new team then they are back at square one, just in a different city, possibly together with a better chance of winning(in their minds).

[mo-sales]

Wince will always be the franchise villain for quitting on the team and writing the book how to alienate a fan base and turn an entire country against you. If the raps had gotten something better than two guys named Williams and Mourning's middle finger than I don't think the hate would still run so deep.

Bosh is walking the same tightrope towards being an all time villain. I don't really care what he does, Wince crippled my ability to be emotional attached to a player, but people in Toronto have already turned on him and before he can actually leave.

I see Wince as the Joker, he has the same shit eating grin and inability to come through in the clutch to defeat Batman. Bosh is more like Catwoman, he's deceptively agile, injury prone and completely unable to carry a franchise on his own.

[da_goose09]

Now im blaming Vince because we couldve gotten Wade instead of Bosh had we not had Vince

This is so true. I wonder how different both teams would look right now? Who knows if the Heat would have even picked Bosh? Probably would have picked a guard like Hinrich or Ford.

Then again, if we didn't have Vince back then the Raps would probably have been relocated like the Grizz haha

[Bendit]

Karma is paying a visit to Wincey during the current series. He with the 84% ft record clangs 2 fts at a crucial time in game 2. He wanted to win he said. Didnt do it with Kidd in NJ and now is showing the way not to do it in Orlando...with Howard. Just cant get what you want can you?

We should really leave CB alone. Just wish he didnt have to provide those farts on Twitter rather than just going about his business quietly and with dignity.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Tbihis: LeBron James is likely set to walk away from a championship caliber team, he's been in the league 7 years and hasn't won squat either in terms of rings. Is he wrong for doing this? Hell no. He played out his contract and did it with pride and gave his all, which turned out to not be enough.

CB4 is in the same boat, minus the MVP's and playoff success. But if they both choose a new team then they are back at square one, just in a different city, possibly together with a better chance of winning(in their minds).

I didnt say i blame CB for walking if he does walk, i said i wouldnt do it. Id rather be a reggie miller with no titles but his name will forever be remembered when Indiana is mentioned. Now that is a legacy.

If Lebron leaves Cleveland, he'll be an even bigger dick than Carter. The Cavs basically gave him everything he wanted, heck theyd probably make him owner if he asked them to. He had a say in all the trades that were made. He should be man enough to accept the fact that he fumbled game 5 thats why they lost the series. Re-sign with Cleveland and give those other guys a championship. Funny how these supposed superstars say "i cant get a ring with this team so ill leave" what about the other guys that they played with and are now going to be a part of rebuilding because the superstar left? They should think about the role players their teams got to build around them, what are they gonna do now?

[da_goose09]

[QUOTE=tbihis;16508]Id rather be a reggie miller with no titles but his name will forever be remembered when Indiana is mentioned.QUOTE]

Well you, sir, are a fool. While it's "neat" to say you were able to stay on one team for your whole career.. it's the 'ships that matter

[RikkJames]

VC is a d*ck and he did set the franchise back to the expansion days when he decided to quit on the team. But VC is also responsible for putting the Raptors on the NBA map and probably saving our franchise from going south like the Grizzlies did. Before Vince fans went to the games to cheer their favourite team, which was usually the visiting ones that they supported before expansion. VC gave us something to be proud of and made the whole NBA take notice, he is one of the most famous sports stars to ever play for a toronto team, he was known worldwide. The Jury is still out on CB, he still might be a d*ck and screw us into getting nothing back , but overall he came in when we were a crappy team and he leaves with us still being a crappy team, his impact on our franchise really doesnt amount to a whole lot in the end. Maybe its because we're used to losing our star players, but I dont feel the crisis in Bosh leaving as I did when we wanted Vince to re-sign or when Damon and Tracy was leaving.

[TM Williamson]

I didnt say i blame CB for walking if he does walk, i said i wouldnt do it. Id rather be a reggie miller with no titles but his name will forever be remembered when Indiana is mentioned. Now that is a legacy.

So as a player, you would forego the chance to win titles in the name of loyalty?

Loyalty in pro sports is a myth for the most part. If the Raptors had a chance to improve their chances for a championship by trading Chris Bosh, they would do it, with no second thoughts about loyalty. If Chris Bosh has a chance to improve his chances for a championship by leaving the Raptors, he should do it, with no second thoughts about loyalty.

He played hard for the duration of his contract, and that's about all the loyalty you can ask for.

[Mack North]

I didnt say i blame CB for walking if he does walk, i said i wouldnt do it. Id rather be a reggie miller with no titles but his name will forever be remembered when Indiana is mentioned. Now that is a legacy.

If Lebron leaves Cleveland, he'll be an even bigger dick than Carter. The Cavs basically gave him everything he wanted, heck theyd probably make him owner if he asked them to. He had a say in all the trades that were made. He should be man enough to accept the fact that he fumbled game 5 thats why they lost the series. Re-sign with Cleveland and give those other guys a championship. Funny how these supposed superstars say "i cant get a ring with this team so ill leave" what about the other guys that they played with and are now going to be a part of rebuilding because the superstar left? They should think about the role players their teams got to build around them, what are they gonna do now?

Sure it's a team game while you're under contract, but once that contract is up you aren't obligated to do anything more for that team. And that's the case for Bosh and James. Both teams had 7 seasons to try and build a championship team and both failed.

As much as I would love to see Bosh re-sign, it sounds like he's not coming back more and more every day. He fulfilled his duties as Raptor in my opinion, and he left it all on the court for the most part(though others strongly disagree). He's now free to choose where he wants to play and I know I won't have any hard feelings towards him, unless he starts talking trash about Toronto or the Raptor organization publicly.

And I'm sure Reggie, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone and John Stockton would gladly trade much of their personal accolades for just one ring.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

hahaha i love it when people put words in my mouth. pity the fool! hahaha

of course winning a championship is the goal of every player, what im saying is you stay loyal to your team, and work hard with that team to win a championship, dont abandon ship everytime you think youre not going to win a championship with your current team. Miller stayed with Indiana and stuck with the team through thick and thin.

i apologize boys, i guess i have to specify every thought i have to spare you guys the analysis, hahaha.

[jrdyck]

Chris Bosh hasn't left yet. Just sayin'... He might decide to stay purely out of spite after all this hoopla.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

So as a player, you would forego the chance to win titles in the name of loyalty?

Loyalty in pro sports is a myth for the most part. If the Raptors had a chance to improve their chances for a championship by trading Chris Bosh, they would do it, with no second thoughts about loyalty. If Chris Bosh has a chance to improve his chances for a championship by leaving the Raptors, he should do it, with no second thoughts about loyalty.

He played hard for the duration of his contract, and that's about all the loyalty you can ask for.

I think they were being loyal to Bosh when they offered him a max extension. By offering this max extension, they figured they have a good chance of winning a championship with Bosh as a Raptor for the next few years, otherwise, as you said, why else would they offer that max extension? So tell me, how is this not being loyal?