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Thread: Raptors Future Looks Bleaker With Turkoglu Comments

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Future Looks Bleaker With Turkoglu Comments

    Great read courtesy of Tim Chisholm from TSN.

    Maybe its just mean, but I smell a big ole' rebuild upon us here in Toronto. Dare I say, next year's version of this season's New Jersey Nets? I mean, all this negative buzz regarding this franchise certainly isn't going to draw alot of positive buzz in attracting new players to Toronto anytime soon.

    Now that Hedo has made it difficult for the Raptors to bring him back, though, the future of the team looks oddly bleaker than it did when Bosh refused to endorse Toronto as a likely destination for his services next season. A solid sign-and-trade for Bosh, a smart draft pick, a wise expenditure of the mid-level exception and a thoughtful trade of Jose Calderon or the team's expiring contracts painted a picture of the future that wasn't as bleak as one would have thought of a future without Bosh. Hedo could have been used more as a playmaker, which would have played to his strengths, Andrea Bargnani's versatility as an offensive weapon would have been on greater display and the dark cloud of Bosh's future would have been eradicated from the minds of the organization and the fan base forever. Without Hedo, though, the team suddenly looks a lot younger, a lot less battle-tested and the future simply looks as unclear as it has at any time since the spring of 1998.

    The key to all of this isn't so much whether or not Hedo stays (although I do genuinely believe he would have had a bounce-back year in 2010-11), it's about how staggeringly uncertain the immediate future of the Raptors has become after his revelations.

    Looking at the Raptors roster, you can now only say that one player is assured to be with the team when training camp opens in October (Bargnani), and only two others look likely to be joining him (DeMar DeRozan and Sonny Weems). Colangelo is on record as having said that one of his two point guards is on the way out, so until we know if that point guard is Calderon or Jarrett Jack, you can't pencil either into the rotation. Reggie Evans and Marcus Banks are both $5-million-ish expiring deals, both of which will be in play all summer (and up to the trade deadline) on the open market, so their services are hardly guaranteed. The team wants Amir Johnson back, but he's an unrestricted free agent and will no doubt shop around before committing himself anywhere. Antoine Wright, Rasho Nesterovic and Patrick O'Bryant are also free agents, but the team hasn't appeared as interested in retaining any of the three. Marco Belinelli and Joey Dorsey are sort of fringe players right now, and even if they do both return it is uncertain how relevant that would be to the team anyway.
    Source - Click here

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    I don't know about everyone else, but I can't wait for a rebuild.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    I read this and sorry my friend but what I got out of it is that Chisholm had just swallowed one too many of those little red pills before he wrote this article.
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    I don't know about everyone else, but I can't wait for a rebuild.
    At least if we don't do well its to be expected. The underacheiving year after year after year it what I have trouble dealing with. So yes, I guess a rebuild isn't so bad after all.

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    I don't argee with TIm. The future seems no more bleak after Hedo's recent comments than as before them. Before he made the comments it was known that the team was not happy with him and he was not happy with the team. Beyond that I think Tim totally overrates the impact Hedo has on a club. Sure he looks good dropped down next to Howard, Lewis and Nelson but what about next to Bargnani, Weems, DeRozan and Calderon or Jack? The only piece missing from last season's equation is Bosh I seriously don't think Hedo's on court problems centered on the big man. I think the removal of Hedo is addition by subtraction. Worst case scenario is him coming back.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't argee with TIm. The future seems no more bleak after Hedo's recent comments than as before them. Before he made the comments it was known that the team was not happy with him and he was not happy with the team. Beyond that I think Tim totally overrates the impact Hedo has on a club. Sure he looks good dropped down next to Howard, Lewis and Nelson but what about next to Bargnani, Weems, DeRozan and Calderon or Jack? The only piece missing from last season's equation is Bosh I seriously don't think Hedo's on court problems centered on the big man. I think the removal of Hedo is addition by subtraction. Worst case scenario is him coming back.
    +1 and another +1
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    I usually like Tim's commentary, but this is one instance where I completely disagree with him. Actually, I disagreed with his original piece where he talked about the potential future without Bosh, in which Turk was a major factor. The reason is that I doubted Turk would be part of any future for the Raps, due in large part to his play and attitude this past season, as well as the rumor that MLSE wants him gone.

    To keep Bosh, Turk is a decent trading chip to take back an equally bad salary, either for a single player himself or for another player or draft pick (ie: taking Brand to get #2 pick). If Bosh goes and the Raps don't get a stud back, I think the Raps are at least in some sort of rebuilding phase, which makes keeping an aging overpaid 30+ Turk even less desirable.

    Question: What is the liklihood and/or what would it take, for the Raps to make a Turk/Banks/#13 - Brand/#2 pick work? I personally think Turk could fit in Philly with their combo-style PGs, but assume they'd want more than just Turk and Banks' expiring contract to drop down 11 spots in the draft, even if they are able to unload Brand.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon May 31st, 2010 at 01:08 PM.

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    "What is the liklihood and/or what would it take, for the Raps to make a Turk/Banks/#13 - Brand/#2 pick work?"

    If they are as serious as it sounds about unloading Brand I'd say there is a decent likelihood. The question is what other teams are willing to put out there to get the second pick. For me personally, I'd be ok with throwing DeRozen into that deal if they want him since he'll be useless if we take Turner at number two.
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    The only team I can now picture that might sorta need Turk's ability to run or execute a pick and roll might be PHX (if Grant Hill can't stay). That team is young and maybe the Nash-made chemistry might convert Turk into a better person and at least net us some assets from PHX, if Steve Kerr will bite at it.

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    Brand.

    If you want to pay a guy $16 million in 2010-11 and $35 million the next two years to play half court basketball and matador defense then he might be the guy.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Brand.

    If you want to pay a guy $16 million in 2010-11 and $35 million the next two years to play half court basketball and matador defense then he might be the guy.

    It's not that I want Brand, it's that I would be fine swapping Turk for Brand (Brand only costs about $5M more over the next 4 years, but comes off the books a year earlier) if it meant we could move up from #13 to #2 in the draft. If we had to throw in Bank's expiring contract and either DeRozan/Weems to do it, I would be fine with it, given the talent/potential we could get with the #2 pick. Brand as C/PF depth would also make Johnson expendable, which could net the Raps another asset in a potential S&T.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon May 31st, 2010 at 03:53 PM.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    "What is the liklihood and/or what would it take, for the Raps to make a Turk/Banks/#13 - Brand/#2 pick work?"
    I would do that in a heart beat. I look at Brand in a similar light to that of Jermaine O'Neal. Injuries have reduced him to a shadow of his former self BUT he can still play and contribute. $50M over three years hurts but Evan Turner makes up for it. The final year of Brand's contract would be a hot commodity for a rebuilding team.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    "What is the liklihood and/or what would it take, for the Raps to make a Turk/Banks/#13 - Brand/#2 pick work?"

    If they are as serious as it sounds about unloading Brand I'd say there is a decent likelihood. The question is what other teams are willing to put out there to get the second pick. For me personally, I'd be ok with throwing DeRozen into that deal if they want him since he'll be useless if we take Turner at number two.
    It's highly likely that Philadelphia will get better offers than that for Brand and their #2. There are a few teams under the cap that could simply absorb Brand's contract in order to get the #2 pick. The big danger for the Raptors is that if Philadelphia is serious, they will end up trading the pick on draft night to a team under the cap (or who can send back non-guaranteed contracts). The only way the Raptors could do this is if they wait until July and do a sign and trade for Bosh to a team under the cap. My guess is that if Philadelphia is serious, they'll want to do this on draft night, unfortunately.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I would do that in a heart beat. I look at Brand in a similar light to that of Jermaine O'Neal. Injuries have reduced him to a shadow of his former self BUT he can still play and contribute. $50M over three years hurts but Evan Turner makes up for it. The final year of Brand's contract would be a hot commodity for a rebuilding team.
    I don't know how hot a commodity Brand's contract will be in two years. Teams are being a lot more cost conscience and fewer and fewer players are being overpaid like they used to. If you look at the number of teams that are scheduled to be over the cap next summer, you realize this. It's two, by the way. Lakers and Orlando. Plus the new CBA might change the landscape a little.

    That's not to say I wouldn't do the trade, because I would, but I think you'd be stuck with Brand's contract until it expires.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Teams are cutting back because of the CBA negotiations. No one wants to commit right now too much until they see the new landscape. I don't look at this as a trend, I look at this as a product of the current situation, which is about to change. The economy is still going to stink in two years and small market teams are still going to look to move contracts for breathing room if they're hurting. Teams are still going to be rebuilding in two years as well.

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    Whoa, Tim

    Teams don't overpay like they used to? How long ago is used to? I agree that teams should be more cost conscious and not hand out ridiculous max contracts, but this summer is likely going to result in a handful of some of the worst contracts ever signed. Only two guys Wade and Bron are going to be worth every year of thier max deal and the rest of Bosh, JJ, Amare, Dirk, Boozer, Gay, Lee are all going to get paid monster deals because teams looked to this summer to create cap room and can't come back to thier fans empty handed.

    The whole reason the new CBA is going to restrict max years and max money is because teams keep handing out ridiculous contracts to players who don't deserve or earn them.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't argee with TIm. The future seems no more bleak after Hedo's recent comments than as before them. Before he made the comments it was known that the team was not happy with him and he was not happy with the team. Beyond that I think Tim totally overrates the impact Hedo has on a club. Sure he looks good dropped down next to Howard, Lewis and Nelson but what about next to Bargnani, Weems, DeRozan and Calderon or Jack? The only piece missing from last season's equation is Bosh I seriously don't think Hedo's on court problems centered on the big man. I think the removal of Hedo is addition by subtraction. Worst case scenario is him coming back.
    I disagree with you on this. Many people thought that Hedo will have a bounce back year next year and that by bringing the right tools, we can utilize him better and get more out of him.
    The consent was that Hedo was embarrassed from his performance ( exit interview) and will hopefully come back with a Chip on his Shoulder trying to prove his critics that they were wrong and he did deserve the big contract and ...

    Now things are very different. We know that he does not want to come back. We know that even if he comes back, he will not be motivated. We know that there is going to be a huge friction in the locker room because of him and ...

    Can we trade him ? Hedo was on his lowest value after his miserable year and the only things that could have brought his value lower was him publicly demanding a trade and acting like a child. Well, he did it. I personally do not think we will be able to move him or if we do, we will et parts and pieces that we can not really do anything with.

    I don't think BC was looking to move Hedo this summer and his plate was pretty full with a S&T for Bosh, moving one of his PG, Signing Amir and maybe moving one of the expiring contracts.

    Now, he has to worry about the impossible task of moving Hedo and the ramifications of NOT moving him and ...

    I think we just got one step closer to Blowing things up, something I am assuming BC is against with but has no choice but doing soon.

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