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Thread: PTI: Trade Hedo to Washington Right Now for Arenas

  1. #21
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    It's luxury tax time regardless, if they want to win games in the playoffs. Its about time they pay the price of being the contending product they claim to want. Fans have been spending a lot of money in support that goal after all.

  2. #22
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    I will not do it if it only involves Hedo. Why should we trade one bad contract to just get another bad one which is almost twice as large !! It just does not make sense. Gilbert is not a locker room guy, he is not a good influence on our young players , is very unstable and self destructive had alot of injuries and ....

    The only way I do this:

    Wizzard: Gilbert + a 1st Round Draft pick ( of course not their number 1)
    Raptors: Jose and Hedo

    Why Wizzard will do this :

    Because they need to move Gilbert and I don't think anyone wants to pay that guy that much money while he is waving a gun in the locker room and they will get a SF who may get back into a shape and a descent PG who can distribute the ball well.

    Why Raptors will do this:
    Because I don't think we can off load both Hedo and Jose this summer and the draft pick will help us in our rebuilding process

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The Wiz have the 1st and last pick in the first round. Something tells me to remove Gil they would be willing to trade #30. They also have #35 by the way.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Definitely do this trade. The suspension really was a bonus - it gave his knee what was essentially another season to recuperate. Arenas will only come out stronger and more thirsty to prove himself - particularly to prove to himself not just that he can be an elite scorer but as well to others that he can be a good teammate - if he ends up with a new team in a new city. I can see him in TO, and thriving in TO.

    I would though like to see if TO could also get Washington's 30th pick (or try to buy a slightly higher pick - perhaps from Memphis or OKC)

    As well, I would prefer to trade Jack over Calderon. Calderon is the perfect backup PG (forget about his contract. Luxury tax and championship intent or bust!)

    Arenas/Calderon/Bradley
    Weems/Bradley/Derozan
    Derozan/Weems/Belli (Stanley Robinson?)
    Bosh/Johnson/Robinson
    Bargnani/Johnson/Evans

    IF there is any cred to the idea that the Wizards may be open to a Turk/Jack/Evans for Arenas/Thornton swap, it makes it sweeter, as we could then use the later pick (if we can get one) to grab a defensive C.

    Arenas/Calderon/Bradley
    Weems/Bradley/Derozan
    Derozan/Thornton/Weems
    Bosh/Johnson/Thornton
    Bargnani/Defensive C/Rasho

  5. #25
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    I completely disagree that this is a swing for the fences deal. It's not. It's an attempt to remain mediocre and convince fans that the Raptors have a chance at being competitive, which they don't. If Bosh leaves, they don't need to replace his scoring, they need to rebuild and figure out what kind of team they need to become, and trading for Arenas won't help that.

    On top of that, Arenas has never been a good locker room guy and is definitely not the type of influence you want around the young Raptor players.

    This would simply be an attempt to make it look like you're trying to do something when in fact you're just hurting the team. The shots Arenas would take would take shots away from the younger players who should be taking them.

    And one big contract is far more difficult to deal with than two smaller deals, so financially, it would hurt the team, not because they would under the cap, but because they would lack flexibility. This trade would put the team back 3 or 4 years.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The Wiz have the 1st and last pick in the first round. Something tells me to remove Gil they would be willing to trade #30. They also have #35 by the way.
    Here we are then. I will not be surprised if we get them both and ship Jose and Hedo. But the question is that do we really want that? do we really want to have Gilbert in the locker room with all those young guys ?

    Gilbert is a poison that Wizzard wants to have nothing to do with while Hedo and Jose are both serviceable, good locker room ( well at least Jose) guys who are over paid.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    I changed my mind on that deal, if we want a gimp guard who hasn't accomplished much, we can go after McGrady. I rather get a good defensive 3.

  8. #28
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    McGrady is good on defense?

  9. #29
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    Default Hedo and Jose for Arenas is a HORRIBLE idea

    1. We have no idea what Arenas is going to bring to the table - knee injuries, legal issues, etc.

    2. Is contract is absolutely crippling - if he doesn't work out it will be next to impossible to move his contract. Yes, Hedo and Jose have bad contracts, but moving $10 million contracts is easier than moving $17 or $18 million dollar contracts. If you want to take on a big contract I would way rather have Kirilenko. Or if you really want a scorer how about trying to pick up Magette (who at this point is better than Arenas... in my opinion) for $10 mil a year.

    3. Is Arenas an upgrade on defense? Maybe Agent 0 from three years ago is, but not Arenas post three knee surgeries.

    4. Why bring in another guy with a bad attitude?

    5. I know BC can get a lot better value for Hedo and Jose... at least I hope he can.
    Last edited by black angus; Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #30
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    1. His legal issues have been sorted. The Raptors have doctors to study Arenas thoroughly. If the doctors say no, then don't pull the trigger.
    2. If #1 passes the test then #2 is a non-issue. Four years left to his contract and if he even makes it through two of those without a injury his deal begins to become more marketable to teams looking to do a rebuild in the near future or teams looking to cut costs in the near future. Jermaine O'Neal has a worse track record with injuries, an equally massive contract yet he was able to be moved twice before his contract expired. The first time it netted the team moving him a 1st rounder and PG who had decent value(at the time) and the second time it netted the team landing him an expiring contract.
    3. Arenas is a far better on D than anyone the Raptors had manning the point who doesn't go by the name Alvin Williams. Arenas has swag, he plays with pride, guts and determination.
    4. He doesn't have a big attitude other than on the court. Was he known for being a bully or something in the dressing room?
    5. BC is only going to get someone else's problem for his own. It's a matter of turning somebody else's problems into something useful and manageable. If Arenas is now healthy then he's just that.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I completely disagree that this is a swing for the fences deal. It's not. It's an attempt to remain mediocre and convince fans that the Raptors have a chance at being competitive, which they don't.
    I used that term because it has been thrown around so much during BC's tenure. But also because every deal that has been portrayed as something significant, can be argued to have been nothing but "an attempt to remain mediocre and convince fans that the Raptors have a chance at being competitive, which they don't" as you say. So this would be nothing new.

    Right now I think I'd rather BC swing for the gutter and build up from there, rather than end up with a single or double that never has a chance to score.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    What is all this bad attitude talk coming from? I seem to remember reading he was a good locker room guy and that he has tremendous work ethic. I think you make this deal and you make it before the draft. I haven't hear of another idea where we trade two of our terrible contracts for an all star.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    Right now I think I'd rather BC swing for the gutter and build up from there, rather than end up with a single or double that never has a chance to score.
    For every Portland there are a multitude of Kings and Hawks who struggle to no end for years and sometimes decades using this philosophy. Not to mention Colangelo has never shown himself to be the kind of guy who likes to tear it all down and start from scratch. The Lakers and Celtics are two of the most dominate teams of the last five years and neither of those two ripped it all down when they stumbled. They made great trades and added to that. Colangelo seems to always want to take this route. Don't count on a complete deconstruction... Especially seeing as he's on a contract year coming up.

    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What is all this bad attitude talk coming from? I seem to remember reading he was a good locker room guy and that he has tremendous work ethic. I think you make this deal and you make it before the draft. I haven't hear of another idea where we trade two of our terrible contracts for an all star.
    It's stemming for the "Trailor Park Boys" gun play brain fart. Well, its extremely difficult for a Canadian citizen with a spotless record to acquire a restricted firearms license in Canada, let alone a foreigner with a record. Relax guys. You won't see another gun issue from Gil, I think the humiliation and lost millions has insured this.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 at 02:32 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    McGrady is good on defense?
    Both are bad ideas, I'm just saying I'd take Diaw over Arenas at this point.

    The only thing that would change my mind on this deal, is it might influence Bosh to re-sign.

  15. #35
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    I used that term because it has been thrown around so much during BC's tenure. But also because every deal that has been portrayed as something significant, can be argued to have been nothing but "an attempt to remain mediocre and convince fans that the Raptors have a chance at being competitive, which they don't" as you say. So this would be nothing new.

    Right now I think I'd rather BC swing for the gutter and build up from there, rather than end up with a single or double that never has a chance to score.
    To me, swinging for the fences is a deal that could backfire, but has the ability to have a huge payoff. Trading for Arenas is a trade that could backfire, but has little upside. Even if he turns back into an All-Star, he's not a long term solution, and would hinder the development of the younger players.

    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What is all this bad attitude talk coming from? I seem to remember reading he was a good locker room guy and that he has tremendous work ethic. I think you make this deal and you make it before the draft. I haven't hear of another idea where we trade two of our terrible contracts for an all star.
    Arenas does have a tremendous work ethic, but he's always been walking a thin line with his attitude and personality. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he's never appeared to me to be the most mature guy, and while the last problem may have woken him up, it's not a gamble I'm willing to take.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    1. His legal issues have been sorted. The Raptors have doctors to study Arenas thoroughly. If the doctors say no, then don't pull the trigger.
    2. If #1 passes the test then #2 is a non-issue. Four years left to his contract and if he even makes it through two of those without a injury his deal begins to become more marketable to teams looking to do a rebuild in the near future or teams looking to cut costs in the near future. Jermaine O'Neal has a worse track record with injuries, an equally massive contract yet he was able to be moved twice before his contract expired. The first time it netted the team moving him a 1st rounder and PG who had decent value(at the time) and the second time it netted the team landing him an expiring contract.
    3. Arenas is a far better on D than anyone the Raptors had manning the point who doesn't go by the name Alvin Williams. Arenas has swag, he plays with pride, guts and determination.
    4. He doesn't have a big attitude other than on the court. Was he known for being a bully or something in the dressing room?
    5. BC is only going to get someone else's problem for his own. It's a matter of turning somebody else's problems into something useful and manageable. If Arenas is now healthy then he's just that.
    O'Neal wasn't able to be traded until he just had two years left on his contract, and you have to realize it will probably be a completely different climate financially than it has been. Just take a look at how few teams are currently projected to be over the cap next summer (2 teams). Obviously that will change, but it gives you an idea just how teams are changing their financial situation. There are far fewer players with horrible contracts, so far fewer teams looking to dump salary.

    Arenas has always had a bit of an eccentric personality, and while I don't think he was a bully in the locker room, he's also not the least bit of a leader, which is what you'd want from a guy coming in like Arenas. At this point, you need to be careful who you bring into the locker room. The Raptors have a lot of young guys and you need to make sure they have good, stable veterans to learn from.

    I do think it might prove difficult to try and trade Turkoglu, but Arenas should be the last option. His contract is awful, plain and simple, and in a league that isn't throwing money around anymore and may change after the new CBA, a headcase with a $17 million contract and four years left, a history of injuries and a felony on his record is probably not someone you want to bring in.

    As I said, there's just simply not enough upside to trade for him. Trading him for Curry and then waiving him would be far, far preferable. Hell, even trading for Vince would mean shortening the length of the contract.

  16. #36
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    They're not going to have cap space if Bosh stays. They're not going to have cap space if they do a S&T. MLSE said they're willing to spend above salary cap and so I say do the trade. Rid yourselves on two contracts around the same length for a player with more talent in his pinkie than the other two guys. Toronto is going to need a star player if Bosh leaves and they need a star player to convince him to stay for that matter. I'm not sure they can land a different talent on Gil's level. This is a time where Gil's market value is at its lowest, now's the time to buy. Hedo and Calderon together stink just as bad as Gil's contract but at least you know with Gil that if he's on the court he's going to do everything he can to be that max money guy you're paying for.
    you tokk the words right out of my mouth. getting gil would give us the best posiiblity of re-siging bosh and would improve our team. plus, getting rid of 2 worse caliber players and 1 guy who doesn't even want to be here.

    and you guys say no. um, ok if we don't bring artenas here than you can say by to bosh and we'll be in an even bigger hole than if we bring agent 0 here.

    plus, i am seeing a lot of you suggesting to bring brand here just so we can get that #2 pick and draft turner. that is an even more brutal plan then bringing gil here.

    agent 0 can still put up 20 points a game for you if you need him to. Brand simplay can't play anymore. he's more injury ridden then gill there fore it's a worse contract.

    plus, if we bring gil here and he actually plays well, we might be able to trade ihm to a team because he'll have 1 less year on his contract and will be playing better.

    you bring brand here and even if you draft turner, he won't be able to carry the team, we'll do poorly and there is no trading brand because nobody will ever want him because he can't play and get's paid way too much to be a bench warmer.

    end of story.

    nevermind changing our names to the huskies. we should start a petition to bring agent 0 here.
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  17. #37
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you tokk the words right out of my mouth. getting gil would give us the best posiiblity of re-siging bosh and would improve our team. plus, getting rid of 2 worse caliber players and 1 guy who doesn't even want to be here.

    and you guys say no. um, ok if we don't bring artenas here than you can say by to bosh and we'll be in an even bigger hole than if we bring agent 0 here.

    plus, i am seeing a lot of you suggesting to bring brand here just so we can get that #2 pick and draft turner. that is an even more brutal plan then bringing gil here.

    agent 0 can still put up 20 points a game for you if you need him to. Brand simplay can't play anymore. he's more injury ridden then gill there fore it's a worse contract.

    plus, if we bring gil here and he actually plays well, we might be able to trade ihm to a team because he'll have 1 less year on his contract and will be playing better.

    you bring brand here and even if you draft turner, he won't be able to carry the team, we'll do poorly and there is no trading brand because nobody will ever want him because he can't play and get's paid way too much to be a bench warmer.

    end of story.

    nevermind changing our names to the huskies. we should start a petition to bring agent 0 here.
    Apparently, trading for Arenas is the only way to get rid of Turkoglu. It's also the only way to convince Bosh to stay. Fortunately, neither of those statements are likely correct.

    There have been numerous scenarios involving trading Turkolgu mentioned that don't involve bringing in a bigger and probably more immovable contract for a player with knee problems who could become a major distraction.

    And I'm not even sure trading for Arenas would be an attraction for Bosh. After bringing in Jermaine O'Neal and Turkoglu backfired, I would think Bosh is looking for less of a gamble to stay.

    And if Bosh ends up leaving, Arenas' contract could end up being more of an albatross around the Raptors neck than Turkoglu's would.

    As for trading for Brand, I'm not sure you understand. The point is not to trade for Brand but to get Evan Turner, who could end up being a very special player and someone the franchise can build around. Brand is simply the price you pay to get him. If Brand regains his form, all the better, but at the very least, he's going to be a good locker room guy who has a year less on his contract than Arenas.

    Obviously it depends on how good you think Turner will be. I think he will end up being a special player who can be the future of the franchise. If Bosh leaves, the team is going to lose anyway, even with Arenas. Why not make the future a little brighter by getting a guy you can build around like Turner?

    Trading for Arenas would only be a success if a) he regains his form, b) isn't a distraction c) doesn't take shots away from the younger players like DeRozan and b) Bosh stays. That's far to many variables to have for a deal that could backfire so badly. It's all about risk vs reward, and the reward isn't big enough to outweigh the risk.

  18. #38
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    Moved your thread topic to here which we discussed the other day.

  19. #39
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    Arenas is selfish, hes too risky, ball hog, not a team player, etc etc. People forget this guy turned down sixteen million dollars from Washington when they offered him the max so the Wiz could have financial flexibility down the line. This guy has gotten a bad rap for obvious reasons but the dude flat out has passion and can still ball. Whos the last guy in the raptors who had the same passion as Gilbert and the skill set to back it up? This team is in dire need of a player who can fire up his teamates and motivate this lackluster group who could be (and has been) out played by d leaguers. Gilbert has that swagger about him and maybe we would see guys like Andrea get fired up instd of that mopey open mouth retarded look he gives everytime he makes a shot.

    Anyways the point is it is about risk and reward, but realistically the guy is 30 in 2 years if im not mistaken, only makes like 7 mill on average more than turkoglu, and his upside could potentially be franchise changing. Even Doug Smith said he would personally do this trade during his chat blog thing, and if theres ever been someone close to being the Jesus Christ of raptor coverage, its gotta be him.

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    Quote Spilak wrote: View Post
    Arenas is selfish, hes too risky, ball hog, not a team player, etc etc. People forget this guy turned down sixteen million dollars from Washington when they offered him the max so the Wiz could have financial flexibility down the line. This guy has gotten a bad rap for obvious reasons but the dude flat out has passion and can still ball. Whos the last guy in the raptors who had the same passion as Gilbert and the skill set to back it up? This team is in dire need of a player who can fire up his teamates and motivate this lackluster group who could be (and has been) out played by d leaguers. Gilbert has that swagger about him and maybe we would see guys like Andrea get fired up instd of that mopey open mouth retarded look he gives everytime he makes a shot.

    Anyways the point is it is about risk and reward, but realistically the guy is 30 in 2 years if im not mistaken, only makes like 7 mill on average more than turkoglu, and his upside could potentially be franchise changing. Even Doug Smith said he would personally do this trade during his chat blog thing, and if theres ever been someone close to being the Jesus Christ of raptor coverage, its gotta be him.
    If the guy turned down $16 million, then please explain to me why he still has $80 million left on his contract over the next 4 years?

    Doug Smith is a pretty good journalist, but I couldn't give a crap what he thinks. This is also the same guy who didn't think Amir Johnson was athletic. I've agreed with him just as much as I've disagreed with him. I'm also not Christian, so if he's the Jesus Christ of anything, it doesn't mean anything to me.

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