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Thread: Andrea is Better Than CB4

  1. #41
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote RikkJames wrote: View Post
    What i meant was that Andrea was chosen 1st overall because scouts saw the talent that he possessed. He wasnt drafted cuz he is 7' and can rebound and block shots, he was chosen cuz he was 7' and was thought to have an all-around game similar to Dirks.
    Bargnani's game isn't similar to Dirk's. He's more like Rashard Lewis than Dirk. Dirk is consistent and he rebounds the ball very well. People compare him to dirk because he can shoot the three ball, he's tall and he's Caucasian. That's not enough. At 19 years old Bosh posted better numbers than Bargnani did this year at age 25. Not only that but Bosh started at center at age 19, only 215lbs and played better defense than Bargnani now at age 25, with 35 or 40 extra pounds.

    Quote RikkJames wrote: View Post
    Bosh is the better player at the moment, but my argument is Andrea might be more talented in overall basketball skillset.
    How? Bosh has a far superior mid range game. Bosh has a better post game. Bosh has a better first step. Bosh is better at drawing fouls and getting to the line. Bosh runs the floor better. Bosh is a better passer. Bosh is a better ball handler. Bosh is a better help defender. Bosh is a better man to man defender. Bosh is a better rebounder on both sides of the court. Bosh is far more efficient. Bosh is far more consistent.

    Quote RikkJames wrote: View Post
    Alot of times, its not the most skilled player that excels , its the one with the desire ...
    Even if you were right and Bosh was the inferior talent desire is one of the most important aspects of the game. Guys who don't have it don't usually obtain it later.

    Quote RikkJames wrote: View Post
    Its like comparing Rafer Alston to Jason Kidd, Alston is probably the more talented player, but Kidd kills him with his desire, basketball IQ and heart.
    Skip is no doubt a better shooter from long range but that's where it ends...
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 10:13 PM.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Rookie Babyface_killah's Avatar
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    There is not one defensive stat out there that doesn't basically say Bargnani isn't a terrible defender and add to that his brutal rebounding. His (inconsistent) offense doesn't make up for his defence and rebounding.

    While Bosh gets to the line at a superstar rate, rebounds at great rate, he can draw the double-team (still needs to pass out of the double team better), and is the best ISO big man in the NBA (other than dirk). His defence is at worst average and he will hold his own on the defense side.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Rookie Moon Knight's Avatar
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    Well...

    We should have this discussion next offseason, where we could see what Andrea's production will be after one year of being "the man"

    Until then it's just ifs and buts

  4. #44
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    Heh. Amir is better than Bargnani. But unlike you, I actually believe what I say.
    LOL ... Good for you man. You got to believe in something, even if you are the only one the believe in such thing . As good as Amir is, there is a long way for Amir to reach the level where Andrea is right now.

  5. #45
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    That, sir, is an excellent link.
    Why thank you, sir.

    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    K, first off, I don't live in Toronto so don't take my comments to reflect the city's approach. He has a post up game, it's just not overly well developed but it has improved significantly.
    Secondly, Bargs is faster than Bosh, and he is a better shooter from distance and their is no one that has ever watched them play that will disagree with that. What they have done historically has very little do do with this, this is about how they play today. Bosh is a terrible post defender and Bargs is significantly better due to his size. He has also always been a better shot blocker.

    " draws an instant double team
    - Better shot selection
    - Fact that most teams would love to have him
    - Fact that the coach of the US men's olympic team couldn't say enough good things about him
    - Higher basketball IQ"

    The double team thing means the other team sees him as a better player, not that he necessarily is. I don't particularly care what the coach of the US Olympic team has to say, especially since this is a comparative thing and I have never heard the US coaches stance on Bargs. Bosh does not have good Basketball IQ. Period. Bosh settles for Jumpers when he has mismatches, can't pass out of a double team, has no idea how to find open teammates and has awful shot selection.

    Bosh has very little desire to win, if you watch him he disappears late in close games. Maybe that just shows he's a choker, but to me it shows a lack of desire. I said at the end of the post that I didn't think he was as good as Bosh but there is an argument to be made. This coming season will tell the story.
    Yes, Bargnani does have a post game, it's just not a very good one, so why mention it?

    Bosh is certainly not a terrible post defender. Bosh's post defense improved quite a bit this year due to his added bulk, but Bosh, as well as Bargnani, let players get position far too close to the basket too much. Bargnani is better in some situations and Bosh is better in some situations. Bosh, however, is a much better team defender than Bargnani.

    If 29 of the greatest NBA coaching minds in North America see Bosh as a better player than Bargnani, I think it's probably safe to say they're right.

    And Bosh doesn't have a great basketball IQ, but it's much better than Bargnani's. Bargnani settles for fadeaways when he posts up a guard. And if Bosh's shot selection is so poor, why does he shoot a much higher percentage than Bargnani? And per 36 mpg, Bargnani was 2nd last in assists behind DeMar DeRozan, so he's not exactly a great passer, either.

    The idea that Bosh disappears late in close games is a myth that has been disproven countless times. Bosh came up big time and time again in close games this year. Bargnani does seem to play well in the clutch, but he's asked to do much, much less. And it's the rest of the game that I have a problem with. At least Bosh is able to play consistently over the course of the game and season. Bargnani will disappear for entire quarters and even entire games. He doesn't have the type of game or personality that will allow teams to depend on him.

    Quite frankly, the majority of the negative things for Bosh go twice that for Bargnani. And Bosh has far, far more strengths than Bargnani, as well.

    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    bosh knows that andrea is better and that is why he will leave.
    andrea is far more aggressive and hungry to win.
    tim's hate on blog was just that, haterade, made from the same stuff the smoke monster on lost is made of.
    also andrea is taller, has better shoes, and doesn't tweet stuff like 'what da scarest movie u ever seen?''
    A word of advice. If you're going to try and argue something, at least attempt to back it up with something other than random, meaningless insults. And when you make posts like the one above, it works against you.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jive's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    so, in a nutshell we all are in agreement that andrea is better than bosh right?
    No.

  7. #47
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    All in all I think Bargs might put up better stats next year than Bosh, but by no means will he be making a more positive contribution to his team. Bargs is better than Bosh in a similar vein in which Bosh is better than Gasol. Gasol does almost everything well, Bosh does a couple things well and Bargs does one thing well.

    Next year for thier value, I would say Bargs might be more valuable. Especially if a Bosh for Bynum happens. Similar stats, similar lacking defense and leadership for half the price tag.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    I can't believe this got so many replies - especially ones that actually had some thought and effort behind them - since the OP had neither.

  9. #49
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    All in all I think Bargs might put up better stats next year than Bosh, but by no means will he be making a more positive contribution to his team. Bargs is better than Bosh in a similar vein in which Bosh is better than Gasol. Gasol does almost everything well, Bosh does a couple things well and Bargs does one thing well.

    Next year for thier value, I would say Bargs might be more valuable. Especially if a Bosh for Bynum happens. Similar stats, similar lacking defense and leadership for half the price tag.
    I don't think there's even any way Bargnani will put up better stats than Bosh. Because of Bargnani's offensive limitations (inability to post up, create own shot, move without the ball and get to the line), he's never going to be a big scorer. My guess is that 20 ppg is probably his ceiling. The only team Bosh could go where I could see him averaging less than 20 ppg is the Lakers. And either way, he's a much more efficient scorer than Bargnani is, so he's always going to shoot a higher percentage.

    Obviously Bargnani''s not going to approach the rebounds that Bosh gets. Bargnani will no doubt get more blocks and three pointers, but that's about it. I simply don't see how Bargnani could ever get better stat than Bosh.

  10. #50
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    I can't believe this got so many replies - especially ones that actually had some thought and effort behind them - since the OP had neither.
    My first reply had the same amount of thought and effort the OP put in. Only after more effort was put in did my responses get longer.

  11. #51
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    Quote insight_tor wrote: View Post
    LOL ... Good for you man. You got to believe in something, even if you are the only one the believe in such thing . As good as Amir is, there is a long way for Amir to reach the level where Andrea is right now.
    Amir was noticeably better than Bargnani last year. He rebounded better, he defended better, and though Bargnani is clearly the superior scorer, Amir destroyed Bargnani in TS% with the shots he did take. He was probably the team's second most effective player.
    Last edited by Brasky; Fri Jun 4th, 2010 at 01:43 PM.

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