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New Rumor - Mo Williams Headed To Raptors?

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  • #16
    Toronto is the loser in this deal. By a large enough margin for it to matter. The reason Cleveland wants Jose is for the better shooting (you put him beside LeBron james and watch his FG% skyrocket). The reason Toronto wants Mo is to save 3 million dollars? Forget that. If his athleticism doesn't translate into better team defense then there's no reason to make this trade.

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    • #17
      I'm pretty much impartial on this one, it gives the Raps better scoring but it's defense that we need.

      Buddah- If BC could convince Dumars to take Calderon and Hedo for Prince and Stuckey, Im down. I dou t he'd bite though since the 2 didn't play so well together in TO. Wishful thinking for another forum I guess...

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      • #18
        Mess wrote: View Post
        I don't see the point of this trade. How much would the Raptors would improve by doing this? Not very much I'd say.
        As bodmon said, it's a trade which has more to do with change of scenery. I don't see what purpose Calderon is serving on this team and trading him for a shot-maker isn't a losing proposition. Williams isn't the defender which we need (as Buddah said) but it's not like this will be the only move we'll make all summer. He's got a similar contract as Calderon but has a higher degree of skill and puts out a better defensive effort than Jose.

        More than anything, this is a trade which makes sense because we don't need Calderon. Mo Williams isn't anything great and just about the kind of player you'll get for Calderon in a straight swap.

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        • #19
          Buddahfan wrote: View Post
          Mo Williams would fit better with Hedo.

          Williams is used to playing with a PF; i.e. King James.

          If this trade goes down it could mean that Hedo stays?

          Then again Williams showed that he was not a bad point guard with the Bucks when he handled the ball more than at Cleveland. So if this trade happens Hedo could still be gone.

          Interesting stuff.
          no matter how many trades go down turkoglu is gone. there is no doubt in my mind.
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          • #20
            Apollo wrote: View Post
            He's far more aggressive on offense. He's a far better 3pt shooter. He's a better defender. He's more athletic, faster on his feet.

            1. The Bucks teams were in rebuild mode. How's his record with the Cavs?
            2. Mo had a higher true shooting percentage. Actually, his defensive rating was better than Jose's (107 Mo vs. 116 Jose in 2009/10). Oh and the net between offensive rating and defensive rating is +5 for Mo compare to +3 for Jose.
            3. Mo could make the Spanish national team with his eyes closed.
            I don't know that being more aggressive on offense means anything positive when the Raptors had the fifth best offense. If you mean that Williams can occasionally "go off" for 30+ games, I will agree with that but when you look at the Cavs offense last season they scored 3.0 more points per 100 possessions when Williams had his ass glued to the bench.

            Whereas the Raptors scored 2.6 points more per 100 possessions when Calderon was on the court.

            On top of that the Raptors were a better offensive team than the Cavs.

            So it seems to me that Calderon has an overall more positive affect on offense and Williams has an overall more negative affect on offense.

            I have never bought the argument that says that more athletic is necessarily better. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were not very athletic. Bill Laimbeer was about as unathletic as a NBA player could be. Yet Johnson and Bird were two of the best ever. Laimbeer wound up being a very very good player who won two NBA titles and put up some of the better career rebounding numbers.

            More athletic does not mean that a player is better as far as how they benefit or detract from the team winning. All it means is that they are more athletic.

            The list of athletic duds in the NBA or would be NBA players who were athletic is endless.

            Williams could never make the Spanish Olympic team because he is not a Spanish citizen. Even if he was you don't know that . That is just some wild blanket statement without anything to back it up.

            Williams might be a slightly better defender but not good enough to compensate for the overall negative impact he has on a team's offense like he did last season.

            Calderon had a bad year last year. I think almost all Raptors fans would agree with that. If he were to never play better in the future than he did last year then I might be willing to consider the trade but otherwise two thumbs down.

            I would rather have Calderon who is a more traditional point guard and has a career average of 8.7 assists per 36 minutes and a career assist to turnover ratio of about 4.2 than Williams who has a career average of 5.7 assists per 36 minutes and a career assist to turnover ratio of about 2.1.

            Here are the career comparisons of TS% and eFG% with Calderon's on the left

            TS%-----.584--.543

            eFG%---.543--.504

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            • #21
              bodmon wrote: View Post
              Like earlier posts mentioned, no one is really winning here. It's just a change of scenario type of trade and the pros/cons of both players pretty much balance each other out.

              However, people always talk about team cohesiveness and that very rarely do you get a team that's been together for a long time. I would think familiarity and having played with each other before has some impact on performance and is an intangible characteristic. Would this trade make sense then? Is Williams, who might be a better scorer, worst distributor and same defensive ability as Calderon worth undermining the team chemistry/cohesiveness?

              Maybe if we got a better defender in return, then it would make the team better, so yes. But I'd rather keep Calderon and stick with the familiarity factor than get Williams.
              A point but I dont think anyone can dispute that Williams is quicker than Calderon. I am unsure about the true defensive capabilities of WIlliams (havent watched enough of his defensive game) so it must be seen how he would fare in a retooled Raptors system. I dont think we should diminish the 3 mill. savings in the 2 contracts to either get under the cap or acquire another player. Also with Bosh possibily leaving and prospects of a large turnover the familiarity argument gets diluted some. Williams was pretty good with his alleyoops to LJ.

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              • #22
                Depends if Hedo is staying or not. If he is then I'd do this trade if not then no way
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                • #23
                  Only if they throw Jamario Moon in the deal

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                  • #24
                    10 assist per game?

                    I would definitely prefer Jose if Hedo is moving (god I hope he gets moved).

                    BC has stated during his exit interview: "You want your starting point guard to average 10 assists per game."

                    Jose easily has the upper hand vs. Mo there and already has great chemistry with our "Young Gunz".

                    Either way, whoever the starting point guard is next season better be ready to play defence or get used to verbal beatings from P.J. Carlesimo.

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                    • #25
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      He's far more aggressive on offense. He's a far better 3pt shooter. He's a better defender. He's more athletic, faster on his feet.

                      1. The Bucks teams were in rebuild mode. How's his record with the Cavs?
                      2. Mo had a higher true shooting percentage. Actually, his defensive rating was better than Jose's (107 Mo vs. 116 Jose in 2009/10). Oh and the net between offensive rating and defensive rating is +5 for Mo compare to +3 for Jose.
                      3. Mo could make the Spanish national team with his eyes closed.
                      Yes, he's more aggressive, and that's great, but Calderon makes more of a positive impact on the offensive end than Williams does. Calderon is the type of PG that makes his teammates better. The offense runs more smoothly when he's on the floor. Williams is a scoring PG, and worked well on the Cavs because the offense ran through LeBron and not him. And you'll notice that his three point shooting jumped quite a bit once he started playing beside LeBron. That's not a coincidence.

                      Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                      As bodmon said, it's a trade which has more to do with change of scenery. I don't see what purpose Calderon is serving on this team and trading him for a shot-maker isn't a losing proposition. Williams isn't the defender which we need (as Buddah said) but it's not like this will be the only move we'll make all summer. He's got a similar contract as Calderon but has a higher degree of skill and puts out a better defensive effort than Jose.

                      More than anything, this is a trade which makes sense because we don't need Calderon. Mo Williams isn't anything great and just about the kind of player you'll get for Calderon in a straight swap.
                      You don't see what purpose Calderon is serving on the Raptors? Maybe to run the offense, especially with Turkoglu most likely on his way out of town. How many times did Calderon coming in with the second unit bring the team back from trailing after the first quarter? If both Bosh and Turkoglu go, the Raptors will definitely need someone to facilitate the offense. Williams can get his own points, but as I said, he's not going to make anyone around him better.

                      The Raptors will most definitely need Calderon next season.
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                      • #26
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        The Raptors will most definitely need Calderon next season.
                        And for this reason, I kind of hope he gets traded. Tired of reading all the fickle QQ (what happened to all the Calderon > Ford and Calderon is an All-Star proponents?), and I think he'd do just fine playing in Cleveland with LBJ (assuming he stays).

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                        • #27
                          my cousin loves him so yeah get him Now!

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Mo's final three years 2010/11: $9,300,000; 2011/12: $8,500,000; 2012/13: $8,500,000

                            Jose's final three years 2010/11: $9,000,000; 2011/12: $9,780,993; 2012/13: $10,561,985

                            What that means is that there is also some costs savings going on here.
                            Works out to exactly $3,042,978 with one, potentially large, difference not mentioned:

                            -- the last year of Williams' deal is a Player Option whereas Calderon's is guaranteed.

                            Do I think Williams will get a better deal elsewhere in 2012/13 and thus be a tradeable asset a year earlier than Calderon?

                            Not especially. A new CBA will cause some impressive salary deflation (imo) so I think Williams will exercise his PO.

                            UNKNOWN: we do not know, as of yet, if there are any buy-out clauses in play in either Calderon's or Williams' contract - if williams is an easy buy-out in 2012/13 then maybe the deal makes more sense.

                            In terms of overall impact on a team, imo, Calderon >> Williams

                            Unless something else, significant in nature, is in play I don't make that deal.

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                            • #29
                              Defence wins games. Management need to ditch our model of offensive oriented team structure. Young Lengthy Athletic is where we need to go.
                              We all make mistakes... Tanking is not the answer.. This squad can ball! Let it roll!!

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                              • #30
                                Doug dismisses deal

                                Yes, there was a rumour of some Jose Calderon-Mo Williams swap but, yawn, if we react to every rumour out there, that’s all we’ll do.

                                When there’s something up legitimately, you’ll read about it here.

                                Word I got on this one was: Forget it, put it out of your mind. So I will.
                                Doug Smith's Blog

                                Moving on I guess, what's next? Things should no doubt start heating up with the draft just a couple weeks away.

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