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Thread: Raptors/Sixers Trade Buzz

  1. #21
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The problem with Lou Williams is he's a tweener. I don't understand how you say he's not a pure PG, but is an ideal running mate to DeRozan and Weems. If he's not a pure PG, who on earth is going to run the offense? The one thing Williams has proven is that he's not a PG.

    I do like Young, and I have no problem trading the 13th pick, but I'd rather not trade Belinelli. I know, I know, many of you don't like him, but I still think he's going to be a very good player.

    As for the trade as a whole, I do think the Raptors do end up with some talented players. I'd still like to see them get the 2nd pick, though.
    I could see where that could get confusing, but Lou avg over 4 dimes a season last year with the Princeton offense which doesn't gear towards point guards. The guy is ideal because he can keep up with Derozan, Weems and Johnson whereas Jose and Jack can't. He isn't a pure pg, but scoring pg's seems to be the new breed anyways. Weems creates his own offense and Derozan will hopefully show up to camp with a handle so I don't think there would really be a problem kick starting the offense.

    Imagine Lou and Thad were in the draft, would they not go before #13?
    I like this draft and think #13 isn't a bad spot to be, but if you can turn possibilities into reality, you do that every day of the week.

    Jack is a nice player, but he's not a starter and can't really play the two guard. Have people not watched 76er games? Lou Wiliams was a breakout star last year before he got injured. Young is a versatile 21 year old big man who can play inside and out. Both guys might not pan out, but there is much greater chance one of them does than the #13 pick.

  2. #22
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    I liked Thad in his rookie year as well and his numbers in his second year were actually pretty good as his minutes increased signifcantly. I think he might have regressed cause he was injured early last year.

  3. #23
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    Quote abstract wrote: View Post
    Demars rookie season was similar to TMacs... relatively lost on both offensive and defensive sets but his raw talent still allowed him to drop 18-20 pts occasionally; this with triano admitting to not running a single play for derozan.

    He still has a lot to prove and I'm not saying he's the next tmac, but it would be a little premature to give up/trade him so soon.
    I can't make that Tmac comparison as their skill-set is different and McGrady was essentially a point forward. I don't think DeMar has shown as much potential as Tmac did. A rookie can certainly develop a lot between year one and 2 but for a 2 guard with limited ball handling and a flat jumper? I tihnk he should focus on being a good defender and rebounder with his athleticism. I would trade him before I traded Weems though.

  4. #24
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Jack can not play defense either and I am not sure if he can be a useful player in a losing team.

    I trade Jack and 13 for Lou Williams and Young. Who ever we get at 13, will not be as good as young anyway.
    and you're basing this on what?

    btw, that is definitely not gonna go down belinelli, jack, and the 13th for thad and lou.

    unless we are getting gil for turkoglu. who now apparently wants to go to sacramento.
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  5. #25
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I can't make that Tmac comparison as their skill-set is different and McGrady was essentially a point forward. I don't think DeMar has shown as much potential as Tmac did. A rookie can certainly develop a lot between year one and 2 but for a 2 guard with limited ball handling and a flat jumper? I tihnk he should focus on being a good defender and rebounder with his athleticism. I would trade him before I traded Weems though.
    flat jumper? his mid range game is pretty effective even at the nba level. i agree his ball handling is limited but we haven't really seen him too much in high screen scenarios so who knows how well he can create if he actually has screens set for him at the top of the perimeter? its an entirely different dynamic especially if he has a big man that can roll towards the basket.

    considering the raptors were totally void of an athletic wing for 3.5 years under colangelo, i dont understand how undervalued derozan is amongst the fan base. if anything, raptor fans should know that athletic wings with scoring potential dont grow on trees and are hard to come by. the fact that one of these players is young, locked in long term and willing to learn/improve, it makes no sense to even include him in a trade... unless we're getting back a stud

  6. #26
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    When you look at Weems numbers on a more detailed level he was not really more productive on offense than DeRozan, Keep in mind that Weems is three years older than DeRozan, 24-21. So DeRozan physically has a lot more upside than Weems. DeRozan's game also probably has a lot more upside than Weems does. Just for the heck of it I plugged Johnson's numbers in on the right

    DeRozan on Left and Weems in Center and Johnson on Right
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PER--------------12.5--------12.9------------------16.7
    TS%--------------.554--------.533------------------.639
    eFG%------------.502--------.517------------------.623
    Usage%----------18.1--------18.4-----------------14.5
    Off Rating-------110---------104-------------------124
    OWS--------------2.0---------0.8-------------------3.4
    WS/48-----------.066--------.044-----------------.150

    * The Raptors need to pass Johnson the ball more. His usage rate is way too low

    Defensive Rating - The Lower the Better

    DeRozan 115
    Weems 113
    Johnson 110

    So not much difference there either between DeRozan and Weems.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...weemsso01.html

    If I had to choose to trade one either Weems or DeRozan, I would trade Weems and not trade trade DeRozan at this point period, straight up.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 05:54 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote abstract wrote: View Post
    flat jumper? his mid range game is pretty effective even at the nba level. i agree his ball handling is limited but we haven't really seen him too much in high screen scenarios so who knows how well he can create if he actually has screens set for him at the top of the perimeter? its an entirely different dynamic especially if he has a big man that can roll towards the basket.

    considering the raptors were totally void of an athletic wing for 3.5 years under colangelo, i dont understand how undervalued derozan is amongst the fan base. if anything, raptor fans should know that athletic wings with scoring potential dont grow on trees and are hard to come by. the fact that one of these players is young, locked in long term and willing to learn/improve, it makes no sense to even include him in a trade... unless we're getting back a stud
    His jumper is flat which is why the coaching staff has had to work on his mechanics. He has a decent mid-range game but it's based more on team daring him to shoot right now than him creating a shot for himself. Don't get me wrong, I would like DD to be a solid player if they decide to keep him but if there is an opportunity to move up in the draft or get a solid young player in the league that has shown ability I would let him go. He is athletic but in the NBA today I would want my 2 guard to be a shot creator or a liquid shooter and right now he's shown me neither ability on a consistent basis. If he could develop into a top tier defender however he would be a keeper in my books.

  8. #28
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    When you look at Weems numbers on a more detailed level he was not really more productive on offense than DeRozan, Keep in mind that Weems is three years older than DeRozan, 24-21. So DeRozan physically has a lot more upside than Weems. DeRozan's game also probably has a lot more upside than Weems does. Just for the heck of it I plugged Johnson's numbers in on the right

    DeRozan on Left and Weems in Center and Johnson on Right
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PER--------------12.5--------12.9------------------16.7
    TS%--------------.554--------.533------------------.639
    eFG%------------.502--------.517------------------.623
    Usage%----------18.1--------18.4-----------------14.5
    Off Rating-------110---------104-------------------124
    OWS--------------2.0---------0.8-------------------3.4
    WS/48-----------.066--------.044-----------------.150

    * The Raptors need to pass Johnson the ball more. His usage rate is way too low

    Defensive Rating - The Lower the Better

    DeRozan 115
    Weems 113
    Johnson 110

    So not much difference there either between DeRozan and Weems.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...weemsso01.html

    If I had to choose to trade one either Weems or DeRozan, I would trade Weems and not trade trade DeRozan at this point period, straight up.
    I think that a deal with DeRozan would net more because of the potential factor you pointed out. Weems is older but they both have played sparingly in the NBA thus far and I like what Weems does right now more than what Demar does. I'd like it if they both develop into good players, I just think that for a top 10 pick Demar hasn't shown all that much to make him an untouchable.

  9. #29
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I think that a deal with DeRozan would net more because of the potential factor you pointed out. Weems is older but they both have played sparingly in the NBA thus far and I like what Weems does right now more than what Demar does. I'd like it if they both develop into good players, I just think that for a top 10 pick Demar hasn't shown all that much to make him an untouchable.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N47IpsY5soc

    which is why he's untouchable for now

  10. #30
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    Quote Moon Knight wrote: View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N47IpsY5soc

    which is why he's untouchable for now
    He's untouchable because he can dunk? You don't have high standards, do you?

  11. #31
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    He's untouchable because he can dunk? You don't have high standards, do you?
    Because of his athletic ability. He can work on his other areas of his game. But you cant work on the athletic ability

  12. #32
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    Quote Moon Knight wrote: View Post
    Because of his athletic ability. He can work on his other areas of his game. But you cant work on the athletic ability
    Players with loads of athletic ability are a dime a dozen. The attraction to DeRozan was not necessarily his athletic ability, but his raw skills. without those skills, he would have been a second round pick, at best. Weems is more athletic than DeRozan, but was a 2nd round pick because he didn't have the skills that DeRozan did.

  13. #33
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    Lou Williams is a backup point guard in this league. Not only does he not make his teammates better and is not able to create shots for them ... but he dominates the ball and is difficult to play with. He makes his teammates lives more difficult offensively.

    Lou Williams is a one-dimensional pure scorer and as such is wholly unsuitable to starting at the point guard position in this league. He is a good sixth man candidate though ... because his scoring ability is a game-changer off the bench and he has a reasonable contract for that role.

  14. #34
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    This would be an cool trade.

    Lou is actually quite a good player and just had a little back luck as to the timing of his broken jaw. I would do this in a second, although i really do like jack.

  15. #35
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    In the long run this could work out well. I don't think Lou Williams is a PG as much as a scorer off the bench, however this may not be the year to address our PG situation maybe next year(lottery again) we acquire Corey Joseph ?

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