Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Doug Smith: "Chill on this trade kicker thing with Hedo"

  1. #1
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Doug Smith: "Chill on this trade kicker thing with Hedo"

    All right, everybody really needs to chill on this trade kicker thing with Hedo.

    Yes, if he gets traded he gets a 15 per cent bump in his annual stipend, itís a clause he negotiated into each of his last two deals and it seems to have become some huge issue with the e-mailers.

    Itís not a big deal, itís certainly not a deal-breaker and heís one of about 35 or so guys in the league who have them.

    Those guys range, by the salary spreadsheets that an NBA GM works off, from Kobe to Mo Pete to Roger Mason to Sam Dalembert.

    A handful of guys that many e-mailers would like to see on the Raptors Ė Dalembert, Manu, Joel Przybilla, Chris Kaman, Jeff Foster Ė have them and Hedo even had one in the Orlando contract he had before he came to Toronto.

    Oh, and Amir Johnson had one, too, when the Raptors obtained him.

    It is no big deal, it not an issue in any trade and itís really nothing worth getting worked up over.
    Doug Smith's Blog

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It is a big issue, since Turk is nowhere near worth the value of his current contract. Why pay more for less? I know it would scare me off if I was a delusional GM thinking Turk was even the least bit useful.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,701
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Taking rough figures (40 mill. over remainder of contract) 15% would be about 6 mill. I think DS has been rubbing elbows with millionaire set a bit too long. It would be a big deal to the receiving team who was over the luxury cap...that would translate the 6 into 12mill. This is a severe detriment. I am befuddled.

    Now, because of Hedo's angst and his request for departure he could waive the penalty...but Smith does not address this.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    1,670
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    it's just not in doughy's nature to have an actual opinion about stuff like this. the point he seems to be missing is that the kicker is still in force even though hedo is the one initiating the trade discussion in the first place. the kicker is something that's negotiated to protect the player from being traded against his will...while they may not like being traded, there's a little bonus in it for them, ya know? in this case, hedo stands to earn a nice little bonus for being a totally unprofessional douchebag asshat fuckhole after loafing through a season (that, btw, indirectly - or directly - contributed to the entire upheaval of a franchise).

    so, now the little pussy decides he's been 'treated unfairly' (actually, what he's decided is that bosh is a goner, the team is in rebuild mode, and he wants no part of that responsibility), and is basically strong-arming the raps into trading him (GOOD LUCK!), which will, as noted above, earn him a nice little $6M bonus. i'm sure having to shell out even more $$ to one of the already most overpaid players in the league will make dealing him that much easier. with the pu pu platter we're expecting in return for a bosh S&T, jose having little value, and now this, i can't wait to see what this clusterfuck of a traveshamockery of a 'team' looks like come november. this franchise is at the precipice...falter just a little, and it could be timber-clip bad for a loooooong time.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,834
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i think what Smith is trying to say is that there is a possibility that Hedo (with a trade kicker) will get traded for another player who also has a trade kicker, since trade kickers are very common in the NBA. so if that happened, his trade kicker and the other players trade kicker will just cancel each other out. I dont think he's referring to the actual amount of the trade kicker, rather the fact that almost every player in turk's level has a trade kicker anyways so whoever we get for hedo would come with a trade kicker as well. Whew!!!!!

    i understand the frustrations, but you have to understand it in hedo's part as well, what if, and i know it this is a big what if, he was playing well last season and for some reason he gets injured and the raps are forced to trade him, then at least he gets a bit of a consolation (trade kicker). or if he was playing good but bosh decides to be a baby and says ill leave if you dont trade hedo, then at least he gets a consolation out of being traded. something like that.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Izmir, Turkey
    Posts
    130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    it's just not in doughy's nature to have an actual opinion about stuff like this. the point he seems to be missing is that the kicker is still in force even though hedo is the one initiating the trade discussion in the first place. the kicker is something that's negotiated to protect the player from being traded against his will...while they may not like being traded, there's a little bonus in it for them, ya know? in this case, hedo stands to earn a nice little bonus for being a totally unprofessional douchebag asshat fuckhole after loafing through a season (that, btw, indirectly - or directly - contributed to the entire upheaval of a franchise).

    so, now the little pussy decides he's been 'treated unfairly' (actually, what he's decided is that bosh is a goner, the team is in rebuild mode, and he wants no part of that responsibility), and is basically strong-arming the raps into trading him (GOOD LUCK!), which will, as noted above, earn him a nice little $6M bonus. i'm sure having to shell out even more $$ to one of the already most overpaid players in the league will make dealing him that much easier. with the pu pu platter we're expecting in return for a bosh S&T, jose having little value, and now this, i can't wait to see what this clusterfuck of a traveshamockery of a 'team' looks like come november. this franchise is at the precipice...falter just a little, and it could be timber-clip bad for a loooooong time.
    First, its not 6M $ Bonus. Its about 3M $ and will be paid in 3 years by other team, not by you.

    Secondly, Even if this douchebag asshat fuckhole clusterfuck of a traveshamockery little pussy of the 'team' had been playing his upper limits in every game ( 18/6/6 with %60FG and defending like spring chickens), your franchise would be still eliminated by one of the East top 4 at round one ( say 5, even Bucks had better game plan than Raps). More dramatic part of the story, you will be having only MLE to spend and most likely it would go to Amirs' contract. Not much space to move to be contender. Same team, same problems, same scenario, another painful year...

    I bet you all know this more than me. It should be main frustrating point, not Hedo or Bosh.

    I think Bosh & Hedo's situation is giving you an opportunity to start from a clean sheet. BC made all those mess and its time to work ass-off and create a miracle from this situation. I think he is capable of doing this. June 24th is 1st test. Will see..

  7. #7
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    you will be having only MLE to spend and most likely it would go to Amirs' contract. Not much space to move to be contender. Same team, same problems, same scenario, another painful year...
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Raptors hold Amir's Bird rights and as such can go off and use the MLE and BAE on other players and still have the right to match any offer for Amir and then sign him.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This whole mess could have been avoided had BC simply made Hedo's contract regressive instead of progressive. Why not assume a 31 year old player coming off his longest season and a contract year might not pan out as you expected and structure his salary so he would much easier to trade ala Hinrich.

    If Hedo does get moved, his first game back to Toronto is going to be a full out hate affair, I might even wear a bow tie.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Izmir, Turkey
    Posts
    130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Raptors hold Amir's Bird rights and as such can go off and use the MLE and BAE on other players and still have the right to match any offer for Amir and then sign him.
    Amir can easily get MLE from another team. So, if you want to keep him you have to pay him more than MLE. That means you will past over cap and Luxury tax line and then using his bird rights. In that case you would be in position not to use Full MLE for another MLE type player. Its ok with to be over Luxury tax but normally franchises choose this option if they see bright light at the end of tunnel of being contender. Last year squad ? I think , No.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Taking rough figures (40 mill. over remainder of contract) 15% would be about 6 mill. I think DS has been rubbing elbows with millionaire set a bit too long. It would be a big deal to the receiving team who was over the luxury cap...that would translate the 6 into 12mill. This is a severe detriment. I am befuddled.

    Now, because of Hedo's angst and his request for departure he could waive the penalty...but Smith does not address this.
    if there already over the luxury tax clearly money is no issue.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The Raptors can just throw in money to cover the trade kicker in any trade. This isn't a big deal.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    1,670
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    First, its not 6M $ Bonus. Its about 3M $ and will be paid in 3 years by other team, not by you.

    Secondly, Even if this douchebag asshat fuckhole clusterfuck of a traveshamockery little pussy of the 'team' had been playing his upper limits in every game ( 18/6/6 with %60FG and defending like spring chickens), your franchise would be still eliminated by one of the East top 4 at round one ( say 5, even Bucks had better game plan than Raps). More dramatic part of the story, you will be having only MLE to spend and most likely it would go to Amirs' contract. Not much space to move to be contender. Same team, same problems, same scenario, another painful year...

    I bet you all know this more than me. It should be main frustrating point, not Hedo or Bosh.

    I think Bosh & Hedo's situation is giving you an opportunity to start from a clean sheet. BC made all those mess and its time to work ass-off and create a miracle from this situation. I think he is capable of doing this. June 24th is 1st test. Will see..
    look, genius, i'm not sure what constitutes 'mathematics' on your side of the world, but if it's a 15% kicker, and he's got ~$44M remaining on his deal, that works out to a shade over $6M over the remaining 4 years. so fuck off.

    and yes, it does 'give' the raps a clean slate, but it's not as though your boy is actually going to a take a buyout for 20% of his remaining contract; he wants to get paid, just by someone else (with, of course, and extra $6M for the kicker...). what kind of contracts/players do you think the raps are gonna have to take on in order to rid themselves of this tool?

    believe me, i blame BC for this much more than hedo...but still, be a fucking man. he basically took the season off, then high-tailed it home (where he is - for some reason - some kind of national hero) so he could bitch to the locals & get the support/coddling he so obviously desires.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    1,670
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    i think what Smith is trying to say is that there is a possibility that Hedo (with a trade kicker) will get traded for another player who also has a trade kicker, since trade kickers are very common in the NBA. so if that happened, his trade kicker and the other players trade kicker will just cancel each other out. I dont think he's referring to the actual amount of the trade kicker, rather the fact that almost every player in turk's level has a trade kicker anyways so whoever we get for hedo would come with a trade kicker as well. Whew!!!!!

    i understand the frustrations, but you have to understand it in hedo's part as well, what if, and i know it this is a big what if, he was playing well last season and for some reason he gets injured and the raps are forced to trade him, then at least he gets a bit of a consolation (trade kicker). or if he was playing good but bosh decides to be a baby and says ill leave if you dont trade hedo, then at least he gets a consolation out of being traded. something like that.
    well, according to smith, there are ~35 players in the L with a kicker. so i'm not sure you can simply say that 'most' of the players on turk's level have one. and just what is turk's level, anyway? he's below-average in almost every on-court facet of the game, and he makes about twice what he should (and that might be generous). is that the 'level' you're referring to?
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  14. #14
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Amir can easily get MLE from another team. So, if you want to keep him you have to pay him more than MLE. That means you will past over cap and Luxury tax line and then using his bird rights. In that case you would be in position not to use Full MLE for another MLE type player. Its ok with to be over Luxury tax but normally franchises choose this option if they see bright light at the end of tunnel of being contender. Last year squad ? I think , No.
    I disagree. Colangelo stated he sees many different scenarios where the team is paying tax and he makes no mention of them all including Chris Bosh on roster. They can re-sign Amir Johnson and still use the MLE and BAE. You're just making a prediction based on your opinion. I don't want to confuse people about the CBA rules. This is why I'm stressing this point.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Izmir, Turkey
    Posts
    130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    look, genius, i'm not sure what constitutes 'mathematics' on your side of the world, but if it's a 15% kicker, and he's got ~$44M remaining on his deal, that works out to a shade over $6M over the remaining 4 years. so fuck off.
    Not over 40M $, its 31.800.000 $ (last year on his contract has player option and CBA rules exclude option year at trade kicker). That makes his kicker about 4.700.000 $ ( if it is %15 on his contract, rumors say its max and %15) . If he waives some of his kicker, say %30 ( he cant waive all of it , sorry but its another CBA rules; max 1/3 i guess), that makes 3.100.000 $ for remaining 3 years. 1M per year.

    As far as i remember being genius is not one of my values, its certain, but i have one value that i like most: i'm capable of staying classy while some garbage mouth guys were directly squirting on me, even if from other side of the world.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Izmir, Turkey
    Posts
    130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I disagree. Colangelo stated he sees many different scenarios where the team is paying tax and he makes no mention of them all including Chris Bosh on roster. They can re-sign Amir Johnson and still use the MLE and BAE. You're just making a prediction based on your opinion. I don't want to confuse people about the CBA rules. This is why I'm stressing this point.
    Ok, Lets asume you sign with Amir and still have MLE and BAE. Now you need to load Wright, Rasho and POB seats to complete 15 players squad. As i said not much space to jump to top level. The problem was not the talent. The talent was there. They were just not compatible with eachothers.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Not over 40M $, its 31.800.000 $ (last year on his contract has player option and CBA rules exclude option year at trade kicker). That makes his kicker about 4.700.000 $ ( if it is %15 on his contract, rumors say its max and %15) . If he waives some of his kicker, say %30 ( he cant waive all of it , sorry but its another CBA rules; max 1/3 i guess), that makes 3.100.000 $ for remaining 3 years. 1M per year.
    You, sir, are hilarious. Have you noticed that each and every single one of your posts involve a change in position? Let's summarize:

    1. It's not $6 million, it's a $3 million trade kicker, and the Raptors will be forced to spend their MLE on Amir Johnson. Conclusion: Raptors will have no MLE to spend on a new player.

    2. Actually, some other team will offer Amir their MLE, so the Raptors won't be able to use their MLE on Amir because it will take more money that that. Conclusion: Raptors will have their MLE to spend but they won't because they're over the luxury tax level.

    3. Actually, it's a $4.7 million trade kicker, but if we apply some random discount, it now becomes $3 million. Conclusion: I am right because I just made up a CBA rule.

    So here's my response:

    You are right, but only about the trade kicker not being $6 million. (The option year doesn't count unless it's been exercised.) Instead, the trade kicker is $4.77 million, period. Not $3 million if we apply a ~30% discount. Not $2.4 million if we apply a ~50% discount. Just $4.77 million. The only time part of the kicker can be waived (by the player) is if it is necessary to make the trade work -- that is, only the amount that causes the trade to exceed the "125% +/-$100,000" trade value rule can be waived. There is no 1/3 discount rule, and because we have no idea what the trade will be, you pulled your discount out of your ass. Pure bullshit.

    You were also wrong in your initial point that the Raptors will have to use their MLE on Amir Johnson, but I guess you saw your error and quickly tried to amend it with another piece of speculative BS. If it takes way more than the ~$6 mil (MLE value) to re-sign Amir, goodbye Amir. Otherwise, welcome back and the Raptors will be sitting on $51-53 million worth of guaranteed salary, plus whatever they get back for Bosh, if anything, and plus or minus the difference in salary between Hedo and whatever we get back for him. Considering the luxury tax level will be ~$68 mil (if the projected cap of ~$56 mil stays true), we should have plenty of room for the rookie contract, MLE and minimum salary players, unless we take someone like Bynum back in the Bosh trade. It will likely be the MLE that puts us into the luxury tax, and if the MLE is well spent, it will be worth it anyhow.

    Conclusion: You're an idiot.

    P.S. The Raptors will NOT have the BAE available since they used it on Rasho last season. It's called a Bi-Annual Exception for a reason.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Izmir, Turkey
    Posts
    130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    You, sir, are hilarious. Have you noticed that each and every single one of your posts involve a change in position? Let's summarize:

    1. It's not $6 million, it's a $3 million trade kicker, and the Raptors will be forced to spend their MLE on Amir Johnson. Conclusion: Raptors will have no MLE to spend on a new player.

    2. Actually, some other team will offer Amir their MLE, so the Raptors won't be able to use their MLE on Amir because it will take more money that that. Conclusion: Raptors will have their MLE to spend but they won't because they're over the luxury tax level.

    3. Actually, it's a $4.7 million trade kicker, but if we apply some random discount, it now becomes $3 million. Conclusion: I am right because I just made up a CBA rule.

    So here's my response:

    You are right, but only about the trade kicker not being $6 million. (The option year doesn't count unless it's been exercised.) Instead, the trade kicker is $4.77 million, period. Not $3 million if we apply a ~30% discount. Not $2.4 million if we apply a ~50% discount. Just $4.77 million. The only time part of the kicker can be waived (by the player) is if it is necessary to make the trade work -- that is, only the amount that causes the trade to exceed the "125% +/-$100,000" trade value rule can be waived. There is no 1/3 discount rule, and because we have no idea what the trade will be, you pulled your discount out of your ass. Pure bullshit.

    You were also wrong in your initial point that the Raptors will have to use their MLE on Amir Johnson, but I guess you saw your error and quickly tried to amend it with another piece of speculative BS. If it takes way more than the ~$6 mil (MLE value) to re-sign Amir, goodbye Amir. Otherwise, welcome back and the Raptors will be sitting on $51-53 million worth of guaranteed salary, plus whatever they get back for Bosh, if anything, and plus or minus the difference in salary between Hedo and whatever we get back for him. Considering the luxury tax level will be ~$68 mil (if the projected cap of ~$56 mil stays true), we should have plenty of room for the rookie contract, MLE and minimum salary players, unless we take someone like Bynum back in the Bosh trade. It will likely be the MLE that puts us into the luxury tax, and if the MLE is well spent, it will be worth it anyhow.

    Conclusion: You're an idiot.

    P.S. The Raptors will NOT have the BAE available since they used it on Rasho last season. It's called a Bi-Annual Exception for a reason.
    Well... Is it common language to communicate with other members in here or am i missing something? go fuck offs, pulling from ass, being called directly idiot... am i really deserving that kind of language? even if i'm wrong on something do you have right to act like this on me? If you have something to add or some corrections, just do it, do it wisely.

    In your whole post , only valuable knowledge is "that is, only the amount that causes the trade to exceed the "125% +/-$100,000" trade value rule can be waived" sentence and thank you for filling my "i guess" part. If you took it from my ass, well, i wish you come when im farting, i bet it would give you more freshing air to understand my notion. Others are your blind mode and not worth to read till the end. Putting numbers on beginning of your paragraphs does not make them valuable. I dont know which part of my body you will take this but We were just chatting for "what if" game with Apollo for last year squad whether they played their full mode or not, there would not be successful year and minor changes cant drag the team promised lands. It has nothing to do with current circumstances and Boshs' S&T, Hedos' trade request were not our issue.

    Conclusion: Yes, I'm idiot. What am i doing here..

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,701
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    if there already over the luxury tax clearly money is no issue.
    I do believe being in the lux tax area is not something teams enjoy. Even the Lakers have a business issue with this. Theyll only go so far. The point I was really trying to make is that it limits options and takes certain possibilities out of the running and with some (to address your point) that kicker could well be the amount that put the team into the lux area. Again, while I am not opposed to the contractual item itself it should be voided when it is the player requesting the trade. It was put in to protect the player against the team moving them.

  20. #20
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Amir can easily get MLE from another team.
    What are you basing this on? I can give you one example of why I don't think what you're saying is such a sure thing. Brandon Bass. In 2008/09 Bass posted:
    8.5PPG, 50.0FG%, 87FT%, 4.5REB, 1.7PF and then hit free agency, only one year older than Amir is now, and signed a four year $16M deal. That's $4M/yr. This year Amir posted:
    6.2PPG, 62.3FG%, 64FT%, 4.8REB, 3.1PF

    Amir was a little more efficient but I don't think that bit is going to gain him much more money. He only took four shots a game and most of those were easy buckets. Bass was taking 6 a game, making 3. Amir was taking 4 a game, making 2.5.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •